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Original poster

Is "Cowboys and Indians" offensive?

113 replies

SinCitysCold · 08/02/2020 21:48

In an FB group I'm in, someone has asked for recommendations about holding a party, and has mentioned in passing that the theme of the party is "cowboys and Indians". Someone else has come on to tell them that the theme is really very offensive.
The Someone Else is white American, whereas the OP is European, and the party will be held in Europe. I'm inclined to think the American should naff off with their post-colonial hang-ups, but obviously I am not native American so I can't know how they would feel.
What do you think?

OP posts:
Durgasarrow · 08/02/2020 23:15

Of course it's incredibly racist. And no, Brits are not off the hook for atrocities against Native Americans, since what became the US was part of Britain for more than 150 genocidy years, and Canada far longer.

Marriedwithchildren5 · 08/02/2020 23:28

How is this different to the pirate thread? Why is one ok and laughable and this is any worse? Make your minds up!

JayAlfredPrufrock · 08/02/2020 23:30

Had my arse handed to me on a plate several years ago on a thread regarding cowboys and injuns.

Come to think of it, you rarely see old Westerns on the telly anymore.

DaphneFanshaw · 08/02/2020 23:37

Yes, it’s racist, outdated and best left in the past.
Would anyone be so kind as to pop a link to the pirate thread on here please.
I love a good bat shit froth.

Tomselleckhaskindeyes · 08/02/2020 23:37

I was thinking this... and pirates discriminated against everybody rather than one section of the community also it is firmly in the past. Discrimination against native Americans is still happening today.

MrsTerryPratchett · 08/02/2020 23:37

How is this different to the pirate thread? Why is one ok and laughable and this is any worse?

Because there are currently, right now, people being called 'Indians' as an insult. I guarantee that this second some arsehole is doing it. The RCMP are currently occupying Wet’suwet’en unceded (meaning they never sold or traded it) land in Canada for a pipeline.

Pirates as in a pirate themed party were dead hundreds of years ago. Unless you're dressing as Somali pirates in which case yes, it's fucking racist.

FoamingAtTheUterus · 08/02/2020 23:41

Tbh if Americans are that offended by cowboys and Indians they'd make a bigger fuss about giving back what the immigrant white people stole 💁🏻‍♀️

Fwiw I do think it'd offensive, and what kid even knows what cowboys and Indians are these days ?? Hmm

MorganKitten · 08/02/2020 23:45

My Native American family would say yes

KiteFlub · 08/02/2020 23:48

How is this different to the pirate thread? Why is one ok and laughable and this is any worse? Make your minds up!
What a stupid comment.

HeronLanyon · 08/02/2020 23:48

I think it’s worse that it’s an adult party. Racist either way. Grew up playing Cowboys and Indians. A lot !

Marriedwithchildren5 · 08/02/2020 23:48

and pirates discriminated against everybody rather than one section of the community also it is firmly in the past. Ah that's ok then!

How do you differentiate between pirates? The hat and the parrot? Somali pirates are pirates and are relevant today. I do think the pirate thread was batshit but after seeing this post I'm getting why it was posted in the first place.

bendg · 08/02/2020 23:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Bluerussian · 08/02/2020 23:54

Maybe a traditional 'Westerns' theme would be a better title.
I didn't know kids played that nowadays, I did when I was a kid, even had a little gun with caps and a sheriff's hat, also had a wigwam. Seems to have gone out of fashion though the new Kevin Costner series on TV may revive.

Cowboys and Native Americans? Cowboys and First Nations? I don't know. They're not Indians though, are they. Or 'Injuns' - yet Americans still say that meaning no offence.

managedmis · 08/02/2020 23:58

Funny, someone said to my son today 'are you a cowboy or an Indian' and he basically had no clue what he was talking about

Marriedwithchildren5 · 09/02/2020 00:03

@KiteFlub ok. Goodluck with that in all future arguments. Perfect response 🤣

KiteFlub · 09/02/2020 00:09

Marriedwithchildren5
So what, you really dont see the difference between dressing up as a pirate and dressing up as a caricature of a particular race?

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/02/2020 00:26

How do you differentiate between pirates?

You're racist or not very bright. Or possibly both.

tunnocksreturns2019 · 09/02/2020 00:31

My DD thinks it’s Naked Americans’ 🤣

HeronLanyon · 09/02/2020 00:34

Well I still do, in a way, during long coastal walks there’s a rocky outcrop my dp and I call ‘dead mans gulch’ and we can’t walk through without spectacular gunshot sounds from cover etc. Well never grow up seemingly. bluerussian you’ve given me a great idea - may bring along caps secretly next time. Think we always assume we are outlaws and shérif type scenario.

FairfaxAikman · 09/02/2020 09:18

Yes it’s offensive. Firstly, Indians is an offensive term - native Americans or the appropriate tribe name should be used.

You should maybe tell that to the elders of the Shoshone tribe. They were visiting Scotland and I got a telling off for saying "Native American". In the word of one of them "Anyone born in America is a Native American. We're Indians."

Durgasarrow · 10/02/2020 14:16

This is a complicated issue about the indigenous peoples of both North and South America. The comment about 'Naked Americans' is tasteless. I am really shaking my head here at the racism and ignorance displayed here as well as the ignorance some people have of geopolitical realities and the UK's checkered history. Of course the U.S. has a shameful history with Native Americans, as does Canada. But the U.S. doesn't have "post-Colonial guilt." But Britain has a shameful history everywhere the sun shines. We DO think about this legacy, and live with it. You need to think about your legacy, too. Just because it didn't happen within your borders doesn't mean you don't own it. You don't get to cut and run just because you stole the world's treasures and set their peoples against each other for the past four hundred years. It's still on you.

LonginesPrime · 10/02/2020 15:27

You don't get to cut and run just because you stole the world's treasures and set their peoples against each other for the past four hundred years. It's still on you.

Now hang on, I agree that the British should be sensitive to the history of the British Empire, but I don't think it's fair to say that the last 400+ years of oppression instigated by the British Empire is the OP's fault.

I'm not seeking to minimise the pain and suffering caused by the British Empire (I absolutely acknowledge it's horrific) but to say it's 'on' modern MNers (who may or may not even be descended from supporters of the British Empire, and may well be descended from communities oppressed by the Empire) is a bit much.

LonginesPrime · 10/02/2020 15:30

I'm not saying people shouldn't have guilt about how their ancestors treated others, but it doesn't feel right for someone else to apportion blame to others for the (possible) atrocities of their ancestors (I say possible as you don't know the OP's heritage or story).

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/02/2020 15:34

Oh! I thought it was First Nations not Native Americans. After all they aren't American, came before Amerigo Vespucci...

ChristmasCarcass · 10/02/2020 17:08

Curious, ‘First Nations’ (and Inuit and Metis) is the Canadian term. The US tends to use ‘Native Americans’. Neither is offensive, though obviously individual people may have personal preferences about how they are referred to. Indian is riskier - some people are fine with it, some people really really are not. I’ve never met anybody who likes ‘red indian’ though.