Is the chosen English rugby anthem appropriate do you think?

[NothingWrong]

To me, it's an emotional song, about God really (coming for to carry me home). England has reduced it to bringing home a prize. Apart from cultural appropriation, is it appropriate for England to use a sort of Gospel song sung by black slaves as their rugby anthem?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Low,_Sweet_Chariot

Here's a link to its origins btw.

Personally I think it's arrogant of them to use this song in the way they do. I'm not looking for a fight! Rugby fans are generally respectful, so I'm just wondering A whether English fans know the origins of the song and B whether anyone else feels it's a little 'off'?

I find it offensive when I hear it sung

You need to get our more then.

I suppose if you don't know what it's actually associated with, you wouldn't see the irony in England singing it. In any case, the Irish will drown ye out even if we can't out-play you!

Haaa we will see!
I used to play for my school and then the County OP but got pregnant so had to give up, OH plays for a local team and used to play for his uni so we're both huge fans only difference is I don't curse like he does

I'm like a lunatic watching Ireland play! A lot of fucks thrown around. A lot of nail biting and a lot of praying to St. Anthony hahahaha.

I do think it’s a bit dodgy and disrespectful using a slave song that was born out of desperation and misery as a rugby anthem by a nation which not only didn’t suffer slavery but was a significant part of the oppression. Of course it was Britain not England and of course lots and lots of other counties were involved in slavery and it would be just as dodgy if they were using it. But I’m not aware of any other country using a slave song as an anthem. The origins of it being sung at England games is innocent but that doesn’t make it ok.

As a Scot, I do also find it kind of annoying that England sing the British national anthem as their own. What right do they have to come to Scotland or Wales or (some of) Ireland and use it as their own anthem when it belongs to all of us? I don’t feel strongly about it but I think it’s pretty rude.

And Flower of Scotland is not about an uprising against the English! It’s about a desperate attempt to stave off an English invasion when the English were attempting to annex Scotland for themselves...

What do you suggest they sing then op? Jerusalem? There will always be an England?

To be fair @iismum half of Ulster really enjoy singing it, that’s why there’s two Irish rugby anthems as some of the ulster players wouldn’t sing the Irish anthem

I actually lit a candle and posted a picture of said candle on FB during the World Cup. I blamed myself for not having gone to a church where the candle might have had more power when we did shite pmsl.

I dunno. Rugby and boxing seem to be two sports we do well in. Well the two that I take an interest in. I don't pay for Sky Sports though as I only have interest in certain boxing matches, but you can usually watch most international rugby on normal channels.

2018 on St. Patrick's Day was unbelievable though. I was in an Irish pub in London and it's a huge venue and was just a sea of green. Jammed. Best feeling ever that day.

I have to travel for 7 hours on the train with OH and the contigent from here so I expect to hear an awful lot of banter but that's not going to put me off.

Maybe it's something England could consider then.

@iismum I hadn't thought of how GSTQ might offend Wales or Scotland when playing England.

The origins of it being sung at England games is innocent
Er, sort of, it was sung when England's black players were playing well...possibly well intentioned but still fairly dubious.

Rugby circles it's usually pleasant jibes and vibes. Certainly in Ireland it is.

I'm a person of colour, and I don't give a damn if they sing Swing Low. I certainly don't find it offensive. I do think you're being goady, though.

@Evilspiritgin they could write an anthem if they don’t think a suitable song exists, like lots of countries including Ireland do. Flower of Scotland wasn’t written as a national anthem but is a modern song. It’s pretty lazy to say we don’t have any songs so we have to use the British national anthem instead.

@KiteFlub - yeah, good point. I hadn’t really thought of that but it is a bit dodgy despite being well intentioned.

Justcly while I appreciate your response 'as a person of colour' - you're not the only 'person of colour' in England, so its your personal opinion only.

Goady? Me with England re rugby? Never.......

'the Irish have both Ireland's call and The Fields of Athenry'

'The Fields of Athenry' is about a man being transported to Australia for stealing corn to feed his starving family during the Irish famine, so you could say that using it for rugby is also trivializing a tragedy.

It does seem a bit odd to use 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' for an English rugby song, but I think there are more important things to worry about in this world. Has anyone (e.g. from the African American community) actually complained about it?

It is utterly bizarre that it’s become an England rugby anthem. As with most things in rugby union, public schools and alcohol played a part.

Simply the Best is obviously superior.

@iismum
I agree with you about gstq. It is the British national anthem not the English one but yet they have claimed it as their own. The Scots and Welsh both have anthems of their own which are easily identifiable.

The same goes for the flags used. The English use the union Jack a lot even though it is British.

you could say that using it for rugby is also trivializing a tragedy.

No - It's about us triumphing over evil. It's about hardship. It's about sacrifice. It's about family. It's about strength, poverty, persecution. It's a 'rousing' song for sure.

Simply the Best is obviously superior. My brother used to listen to that before he competed in the Worlds.

Has anyone (e.g. from the African American community) actually complained about it?
Yup

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/swing-low-sweet-chariot-criticism-english-rugby-black-academics-racist-unfortunate-a7620421.html

The Fields of Athenry is not the same. It’s about a seminal period in Irish history that had a profound impact on Irish identity and how Ireland became the country it is, and it’s being sung by the Irish.

And the ‘there are bigger things to worry about’ argument is a bit tedious. Yes, there are bigger problems than almost any problem. It doesn’t mean you should just ignore everything else. And yes, lots of people complain about Swing Low. I don’t know if anyone’s done a racial analysis on them.

@NothingWrong

I didn't say I was the only person of colour in England. I find it interesting that you felt the need to inform me that my post was "just my opinion" though. Isn't that true of everyone?