To ask for help answering Universal credit question for my friend

[MyDcAreMarvel]

To ask for help answering Universal credit question for my friend. She is currently on tax credits and pays much more in childcare costs in the holidays that term time for her two school age children.
Because of this she averages her childcare costs over the year and pays £300 a week all year round to the childcare provider and receives £210 ( 70%) towards costs.
Under universal credit will she be able to continue to pay the childcare provider £300 a week and send invoices of confirming this or will UC only pay the cost of the actually childcare sessions used that month?
As her childcare costs are so high in the summer she will have to stop working if she can’t average , as childcare costs capped at a certain rate per month.
She is very anxious about this as she is leaving an abusive relationship.
Tia.

They pay in arrears what you have used that month. So it sounds as though she will lose out.

Yes I understand the arears, however can she pay say £1200 a month if the childcare provider invoices her a flat fee every month even though childcare hours will vary?

She will better off getting them to give her invoices for the dates that are in her assessment period.

So for example mine is 1st day of the month to last day of the month. So she needs them to write invoices for the dates she has paid for childcare during that assessment period Only. so she gets the money owed to her.

I can't see her getting any setting to lie about how much she is paying as that is fraud and they can get done as well as her.

Universal credit pays up to 85% of childcare costs - so this is an improvement on 70% on tax credits,.
If you are working, Universal Credit can help with the costs of childcare, no matter how many hours you work.

You may be able to claim up to 85 per cent of your childcare costs if you’re eligible for Universal Credit and meet some additional conditions. The amounts you can receive in childcare costs are:

a maximum of £646.35 per month for one child
a maximum of £1108.04 per month for 2 or more children
Childcare support is paid in arrears. This means that you will usually pay the costs yourself, and Universal Credit will then pay you some of that money back. If you think you need help with the costs at the time you pay them, you should discuss this with your work coach. See www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk/new-to-universal-credit/children-and-childcare?utm_source=Search&utm_medium=Ad&utm_content=childcare&utm_campaign=UC18&&gclid=CjwKCAiA1fnxBRBBEiwAVUouUmuNbiZw7xe2AhfHJwZM6cylF-c8lVl5La_uBZAj4Bm90zzeEX3LZxoCxFcQAvD_BwE

I can't see her getting any setting to lie about how much she is paying as that is fraud and they can get done as well as her.
No she doesn’t want them to lie she wants to actually pay £1200 a month. However for example June Childcare costs would be £400 and July £2000 can she pay £1200 each month if the childcare provider invoice her £1200 in June and £1200 in July rather than £400 in June and £1200 in July?

Universal credit pays up to 85% of childcare costs - so this is an improvement on 70% on tax credits,.
If you are working, Universal Credit can help with the costs of childcare, no matter how many hours you work.
Yes we understand all that buts it’s not an improvement If she has to pay thousands of pounds more each year due to not being able to average costs.

I think she should check her contract - my contract with nursery is the same (ie I pay the same every month regardless of hours used as it is averaged out over the year) but it doesn’t actually say what hours I have used that month? So if she provides her contract with the monthly bill she should be ok?

Universal credit will only pay the money back when the childcare is used. One question when declaring your costs is e.g:

How much did you pay?
What date did you pay?
What dates does this childcare payment cover?

If the dates are for future childcare you will only be paid the universal credit after that date so she will loose out.

Here’s the wording

I think you're overcomplicating this. Your friend pays a flat fee every month for access to as much childcare as she requires. The monthly fee is the cost of her childcare.

@laudete I hope so. Is she ok to average the costs then?

@PotteringAlong are UC ok with that set up?

@TheGriffle I am confused again re paying in advance. UC have been no help in advising her!

You seem to be ignoring those who have told you the correct and therefore your least preferred advice.
Your friend can only claim for childcare that OCCURS in that assessment period.
Eg.. Her childcare in needed from the 1st July to the 31st July and costs her £2000. She cannot claim £1200 of that in June as the childcare isn't being used in June. She must claim it all in July. Yes, this means she will probably loose out in comparison to what she has claimed so far

What does her invoice actually say? I am now uncertain if your friend's childcare provider is charging a fixed flat-rate fee for an inclusive service... or if your friend is buying childcare "credits" to be discounted off later invoices.

If her invoice just says X amount charged for childcare services, the hours are irrelevant. The amount charged is the cost of her childcare that month. If her invoice breaks it down into hours used, credit on account, etc, then she is paying for services in advance. The amount charged includes future childcare. Your friend cannot average the costs; her service provider can calculate the costs according to their business model. It is not an uncommon practice for nursery schools or some childminders to charge fixed flat-rate fees for all services provided. However, some childcare providers may operate differently and charge solely for actual hours used.

You seem to be ignoring those who have told you the correct and therefore your least preferred advice.
No I am not ignoring it, I am asking if that is correct.

@laudete the childcare provider are really helpful and are happy to invoice her in whatever way will enable her to claim full childcare costs during school holidays. She doesn’t currently have invoices as she is still on tax credits.
I will let her know to ask the childcare provider to bill her a fixed monthly fee for any services used. That is helpful thank you.
I am confused as to why this has not been raised as an issue with UC. Surely many claimants will be left out of pocket by £1000 plus compared to tax credits. She can’t be the first person to average childcare. It’s what you are told to do for tax credits. I thought UC was meant to “ make work pay”!

@laudete can I ask are UC happy with an invoice that doesn’t break down hours /days childcare but rather is a fixed fee invoice?

Her childcare fees are the amount her provider charges her each week/month.

If her provider charges her a flat rate of £1200 per month then her childcare fees are £1200 and her invoices should reflect this.

It's reasonably well known that UC has caused some cash-flow issues because of the way it is structured.

I'm still uncertain about your friend's situation, tbh. I'm not suggesting she asks her childcare provider to fudge the paperwork. Your initial post said that she currently pays a fixed flat-rate fee year-round for services provided. If she stops her contract now, is she fully paid up to the last invoice? If she's fully paid up, it's a flat rate. If she owes money or is due to a refund, it's a variable rate.

Maybe my first post wasn’t clear sorry. Her childcare costs fluctuate across the year so she pays £300 a week every week. This means she is in credit during term time but the balance gets used up during the holidays. This is what tax credits told her to do ie add up the annual childcare costs and divide by 52 to give a weekly average.

What do other parents do then when their childcare costs are higher in the holidays but low in term so it averages out?
In the real no UC world people plan finances in years not months! It makes no sense, it’s like tax credits was logical and well though out and UC makes no sense!

I don’t claim universal credit so I don’t know, I was just saying that my nursery contract doesn’t actually specify hours used that month, so there is no way of saying what I have used for what cost.

Ok, thanks @PotteringAlong