Are you scared of Smart Motorways?

[bridgetjones1]

I never used to be, I thought they were a fab idea and really eased traffic at peak times, but they now scare the bejesus out of me.

I have this fear of breaking down on the motorway, I get to the left hand lane but there is no hard shoulder.

I have 10 month old twins and I think it’s this that scares me. I know we’d all have to get out of the car and onto the grass verge pronto, but it’s the fear that I won’t get everyone out in time.

I saw on breakfast tv this week that the roll out of smart motorways has been suspended.

Should they be scrapped altogether?

Do any other countries have "smart" motorways?

Many European countries have motorways which have variable speed limits and are monitored by a control centre at all times, which can close lanes if necessary.

A few cities in the US have hard shoulder running as well.

Although there should be a second test you have to pass before driving on any motorway IMO.

I agree. I know far too many competent drivers who won't drive on motorways in RL, and there seem to be quite a few on here as well.

I think they just lack confidence, and having a few motorway driving lessons after they have passed their driving test should be mandatory. I well remember the idea of motorway driving as being really scary, but it isn't. It is actually easier to drive on a motorway than on A and B roads. And if you feel unconfident, just stay in the inside lane.

I signed the petition.

There may be a time when we don't need a hard shoulder.

But that time isn't yet.

Again- yesterday we found ourselves stopped completely, suddenly on the northbound M3 between Winchester and Basingstoke.

Bit stressful, on our way to a uni interview!

Then we noticed the other direction was also stopped; so we knew there'd been an accident. 45 minute delay.

How would the (maybe excessive, I know!) four fire engines, 4 ambulances and 8 police cars have accessed the accident site without a hard shoulder? Just- how?

Exactly @Ginfordinner.

I know you can do Pass Plus but many people can't afford to.

It's the joining/exiting that people seem to struggle with. I guess maybe they get flustered when knobs won't let them in but I think motorway driving is easier than many 'normal' roads too.

I’ve had a car written off due to a car pulling out of a junction turn off last minute in front of the car in front of me, she slammed on her brakes from 50-0 and I couldn’t stop despite being 2 car lengths behind her

That accident was "due to" you not leaving enough of a gap, @DaveMinion. Stopping distance at 50mph is in excess of 150', two car lengths is about 30', maybe 32' for a big car.

You were driving far too close.

I have to drive on the M1 to get to work so motorway driving is second nature to me. But it is second nature because I do it all the time. And this is where you get confident. I remember the first time I drove on a motorway, and I was terrified. Taking the first step is hard, but, believe me, just keep doing it and it gets so much easier.

I wasn’t aware of them until they had been in the news recently. I know that there’s a stretch of motorway we sometimes go on which is a smart motorway but I hadn’t really thought about it.

Since hearing about the accidents and deaths on them I’m terrified! I’m not really the type to panic at something you see in the news. I have an 11 month old and a baby on the way. I don’t think I’d take them on a smart motorway now. I know that an accident can still occur on any road. The tonight program had a feature on it and the phone calls and stories are still haunting me a week later.

@GinnyStrupac, on Panorama they talked about one that had been out of action for 336 days. I think it was on the M2, but my memory's shite, so don't quote me.

It's like this on the M1/A1M interchange, where it suddenly goes from 3 lanes to 5 and everyone seems to want to be in a different place. Likewise at the M62/M621 interchange at Lofthouse.

It works when everyone pays attention, maintains decent stopping distances and they only pull out in a considered move. Most of the time it's fine although I can understand it would be hair raising for someone who isn't used to it. Lots of smart motorways don't operate hard shoulder running 24/7 - the M62 being a good example.

The key to motorway driving is plenty of practice and paying attention - which also includes listening to your car and being aware of changes/noises/alerts which could indicate a problem.

I still think that there should be more refuge areas and closer together.

I have no option but to use them. I live two miles from one, and many of my normal journeys involve it, and all of my frequent long distance ones.

In fairness, in general they have improved my journeys hugely. The variable speed limits mean it's very rare to come across what used to be frequent traffic jams due to level of traffic, and in general the signage is quick and responsive to incidents.

But yes, the lack of space to pull over is worrying. I would be much more anxious if I broke down now.

That accident was "due to" you not leaving enough of a gap, @DaveMinion. Stopping distance at 50mph is in excess of 150', two car lengths is about 30', maybe 32' for a big car.

I'd reckon two car lengths is under 10 metres (a longish car like a Passat estate is < 5m). At 50 mph just your thinking distance is ~15 metres. So even if you braked as sharply as the car in front had to, it's inevitable you'd tail end it.

I wish there was a way to detect and enforce sensible gaps. The rule of thumb is a 2 second gap, not 2 car lengths.

@ErrolTheDragon stopping distance is bigger the faster you're going. That's common sense.

If it's 2 seconds at 30mph surely it'd be more like 4 seconds at 50?

It's not inevitable you'd rear-end the car in front unless you are, in fact, too close.

Highway code stopping distances:

Speed Stopping Distance
20mph 12 Meters / 40 Feet
30mph 23 Meters / 75 Feet
40mph 36 Meters / 118 Feet
50mph 53 Meters / 175 Feet
60mph 73 Meters / 240 Feet
70mph 96 Meters / 315 Feet

Yes I was taught the 2 second rule as well - but clearly the speed at which you travel impacts on this! I will travel less distance in 2 seconds at 30mph than at 70mph which is why stopping distances increase with speed.

Whoever coined the phrase "smart" motorways was I assume being sarcastic as there is nothing remotely smart about them.....saving money on widening...hell yes!! but "Smart" lol

We used to tow a caravan and the dread of approaching the s
"smart" section got too much.

The most idiotic idea ever.

I think the idea of the 2 second rule is simply to allow for thinking time, not stopping distance in total. The thinking distance scales linearly with speed (9m at 30, 18m at 60) while the braking time has an exponential curve. But the car in front will be braking in a similar way. The 2 seconds is just so you don't catch up with it before you start to brake!

They really scare me. I have a newish car so it's not so much breaking down as rear ending someone who cant escape. I try to put my foot down and use the two fastest lanes

Yanbu!

I no longer drive on the M3. 17 miles with no hard shoulder? No fucking way!

This is very inconvenient for me as I go on the M3 fairly regularly from London to Surrey and Hampshire to visit family. But I add a lot of time onto my journey rather than go the smart motorway route.

They fucking terrify me and I use the M42 which admittedly has refuges quite close together.

I have 2 small children and the thought of how I'd get them out if I broke down in the live lane, makes me feel physically sick.

It's made me realise that I need to swap their car seats round though, my 2 yr old is in a swivel seat behind passenger seat. My eldest is in a high back booster behind me. If we broke down, how would I get them both out the passenger side? They wouldn't get past the seat, at least if the high back booster is on the passenger side I can drag them both out.

Panorama scared me so much, I actually cried watching it

here is my thread on the same subject from almost exactly 2 years ago (have namechanged, obvs!).

Apparently 38 people died on smart motorways in the last 5 years. I don't know how that compares to "normal" motorway statistics. Does anyone else?

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with confidence/experience of driving on motorways!

I've driven pretty much every day for 39 years with no collisions so far . I've driven all over the UK, much of Europe and the States in every vehicle imaginable from Lotus Espirit to Luton Van. I can get myself around London without a map and would set off on any journey to anywhere in the UK and beyond with complete confidence.

But smart motorways are dangerous.

I prefer motorway driving and am confident. I never really thought much about smart motorways and used them regularly without any problems or anxiety. Then, last year, I was in the left lane behind a lorry that suddenly pulled sharply out into the 2nd and 3rd lane. We were all doing 50mph as there were speed restrictions due to road works. There was a car broken down in immediately in front of me with the family getting out from both sides. Still not quite sure how I managed to get round by straddling the 2nd and 3rd lane, after the lorry. If the traffic had been going faster than 50mph, I have no doubt there would have been a multiple pile up and death and injuries. I am more wary now and whilst I always keep a safe distance from the car on front, on smart motorways I at least double the distance.

Motorways need to be safe/understandable for even the most stupid of motorists. There is no point in handing out 'life sentences' after the event, that helps no-one. Also, closing a lane because there is an accident on it is all very well for those that notice the sign on the gantry, but what if they don't, or you reach the accident before the next gantry sign warning. That always assumes that they have been updated of course. Basically you are fucked! Given a choice I would avoid at all costs. It's also not helpful for the smug previous posters saying they always make sure they drive new cars. I'm afraid tyre blow outs happen to new cars as well as old. They will die in their brand new fully serviced car if they hit an old banger on the inside land. So be scared, be very scared. Sign up here

Also, closing a lane because there is an accident on it is all very well for those that notice the sign on the gantry, but what if they don't, or you reach the accident before the next gantry sign warning.

Lane closure gantry alerts don't just go from free flowing, fully open to.... X closed right now!

IIRC, there is a specific series of advance warnings leading up to the incident area and actual closure. This ensures most people will start being made aware quite a way beforehand, starting far enough back that any vehicle will be forewarned of an upcoming closure well before they reach it.

(Yes of course there will be some in the immediate vicinity at the exact time it happens who won't get any warning, but that's no different to now)

@BuzzShitbagBobbly
You say no different to now. But how many of the people now stuck in immobile cars on the motorway would previously have been able to get to the relative safety of the hard shoulder‽ Smart motorways mean that everyone who breaks down is stuck in live traffic for a bit, not just some people.
I actually wonder how many previously did manage to get to the hs, I suspect a vast majority.

IIRC, there is a specific series of advance warnings leading up to the incident area and actual closure.

I do a lot of motorway driving. Warnings of lane and entire motorway closures are given many miles before the incident. IMO anyone who fails to notice the flashing lights and warnings of today's overhead gantries shouldn't be driving. How do you not notice the warnings?