To think this might not be legal ?

[CheesysNo1]

Need some advice.

I own a flat in a block of 6, last year my elderly neighbour died below me and the flat was sold and Iv noticed a lot of women coming In and out every week with suitcases and me and my other neighbours have been a little confused.

Well recently it’s all went down hill the close is full of rubbish and they are not taking their weekly turn of sweeping and mopping the stairs and three days ago a very aggressive man kicked in the common door to the building and he was shouting and screaming into the letter box, I never noticed the door was broken until later on when I felt safe to leave the house. Now the last two days all Iv heard is shouting and banging from down stairs...male and female voices.

Today I went down to tell them to keep it down and if I could get the landlords number and the women said there is no landlord this is a women’s shelter and gave me the website.

This is what it said... A charity to help women with accomodation needs edited by MNHQ for privacy reasons

Iv phoned and left a message but there was only a mobile number no office number and no one has got back to me.

I was just looking for some advice on what to do or if this is legal ? Should I just suck it up and deal with it ? Obviously I have a lot of compassion for these women but on the other hand I’m pregnant with my first child and I’m a little scared walking down the stairs and worried about if anymore trouble will be brought the to building.

Thanks.

Many lease forbids residents to run a business or similar in the property

Questioning is this charity is legally set up in that flat is not outrageous.

Contact the charity and report the disturbance. frankly, if it's not safe for the OP, it's not safe for the women either!

And also, when you report the violent aggressive man who broke the door, to the police, I'm sure they'll look into it thoroughly.

To all the people saying 'why wouldn't it be legal' - it's highly likely there would be restrictions within the head lease / freehold re. use of properties / restricting them to residential use, not to mention likely planning permission requirements for change of use, so not illegal per se but likely to be in breach of various requirements. The OP is perfectly reasonable to question this given damage to communal areas / antisocial noise / and placing her (as well as the women) at risk given it appears the men these women are fleeing from evidently find them easily, and obviously entitled to safe peaceful enjoyment of her home. Of course women fleeing DV need refuges, but a flat in a block of residential apartments is absolutely not the appropriate place.

When the man was telling and breaking the front door, did you call the police? He was most likely trying to get to the woman who had escaped his DV! She needed your help!

I would get in touch with the charity and find out more. It could be that the women has been coerced into letting him near her now that he has found her and she needs help.If it is a womens refuge then there shouldn't be men there.

I stayed in a hostel for vulnerable homeless run by my local authority and it was staffed 24 hours with a locked door and concierge with cctv. There were men there as well but mostly women.

Op, i think you should call the police if you can hear shoutings / disturbances. These women are obviously feeling domestic abuse and could be in danger.
The police attendance should be flagged up with the charity. But also contact them about the rubbish etc. They will probably be grateful to you for letting them know as the last thing they will want is to draw attention to themselves.

YANBU. This doesn't sound legit at all and you are right to question it. Women's refugees are not run like this. For all you know these could be squatters or women being trafficked and this reply to say it's a charity could be just to get you to back off.

You need to contact the police to report the damage to your door and threat of violence, to the charities commission and the council to make sure they're aware of what's going on and check whether or not this is legitimate.

Questioning the goings on doesn't mean you don't have any compassion for women in genuine need but you are justified in wanting to make sure this is safe and safeguards are put in place to ensure your safety too.

You need planning permission to set that up.

So contact the council. And ignore the posters who think you’re being a ninny, I lived next to a halfway house once and it was hellish. I ended up moving. It was too intimidating for me and my children.

Sometimes I wish men lived on another planet.

My friend runs a women's refuge and her charity has bought houses and flats for vulnerable women - nothing illegal or dodgy about it.

I have come on here too late to see the contact details but if it had been my friend's charity I'd have called her to alert her to your situation. Just contact the charity and sort it all out with them. They will be friendly types who care about women so should be able to help you.

Federated DV shelters aren't run like this, but unfortunately contracts are being awarded to charities that have no ties to the women's sector, because their bid for the contract is lower.

Its a false economy. It doesn't work out costing any less in the long run.

My friend runs a women's refuge and her charity has bought houses and flats for vulnerable women - nothing illegal or dodgy about it.

That’s great. But you don’t know the terms of the leasehold of the flats where the OP lives.

And ‘accommodation needs’ doesn’t automatically mean women escaping domestic abuse.

I would search the deeds and land registry and check for covenants that preclude multiple occupancy, short lets and sub lets.

Who is the freeholder?

It's definitely a legal issue. Look at your own lease. I am the secretary for the management company of a block of 9 flats - I think all leasehold blocks have to have one? Our leases say things like no more than two adults from a single family (except short term visitors), no sub-letting, no running a business, etc. So I would be very surprised if it was legal. If you can't find your lease, check with the management company.

Those conditions should be replicated when a flat is sold to a new buyer, and and when an owner lets to a tenant.

I have every sympathy for these women but as OP says she doesn't feel safe having to share a communal space and front door with potential angry exes etc. Such charities really need to obtain self-contained premises (with high fences)!

Would they need HMO permission for this? Sounds like it’s not being managed very well, however good the intent.

My aunt used to run a shelter for victims of DV (not in the UK)

I honestly don’t blame you for being worried or questioning the legality, I wouldn’t have thought a flat in a block where no residents have been
consulted or informed and could potentially buzz in someone the victim was trying to avoid - where to start! Write to whoever is running it, copy in council and see if everything has been done properly.

The first questions are who is the free holder and is against the terms of the lease?

I'd keep contacting your charity until you speak to someone senior. Ask for a meeting to discuss how to improve how you are being impacted. Ask them how they monitor the people living there.

Very much a legal issue. Breach of planning permission and breach of lease. Legitimate charities shouldn't do either. What other responsibilities are they shirking? The last thing vulnerable women need is a charity that doesn't know what the fuck it's doing - gives the women a false sense of security.

The lady phoned me back and she is meeting me Tomorrow. She said that it’s not a hostel and that she only uses it for workshop during the day and that people only stay over when the work shops runs late

I said so it’s a business then in a residential flat ? She said no it’s not a business we take no money so it’s a charity. I said well did you get permission from the council and she said yes but she didn’t answer when I said who from the council did you get permission off?

I made her aware of the dv concerns aswell

I said well if it’s being run as a work shop do you not need insurance or fire safety regulations? Honesty she just started getting argumentative with me when I was asking question so I just said okay that’s fine Would you like to have a meeting with me and a few neighbours this week ?

I wasn’t really expecting an argument just some information

It sounds like she didn’t like being questioned

Next time there is the slightest amount of noise I'd call the police. It sounds like it's being used in trafficking to me as a temporary stopping point. Why would strings of women bring suitcases to a workshop?

Workshop? Sounds highly dodgy.

I’m not sure a meeting is a good idea, talk to freeholder, council etc etc.

Get the charity registration number, do everything in writing.

CheesysNo1 after your update it sounds sketchy as fuck. Maybe the woman on the phone tried to lie because she thought she would be “protecting” the women? As Po said, it makes no sense that so much rubbish would be generated from a workshop space, nor explain the comings and goings with suitcases or late night violence.

Start making a log of what you’re experiencing, everything that’s happened so far, who you’ve spoken to, with dates and times. That way if you need to take this to the police or the charity commission you have all the evidence (and it definitely sounds like you may need to)

Honestly, you can’t just set up a charity with nothing but good intentions and some funding to chuck at people. You need a proper plan and a clear aim, with robust training and support for your staff and volunteers. At best, they’re bumbling along and making well intentioned mistakes. At worst, they’re actively putting vulnerable women at risk.

I agree with hammeringinmyhead, that sounds dodgy.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immigration/trafficking/report-human-trafficking/

You need to look at your lease (I appreciate you own your flat; it will be on a long lease). Who is the freeholder? This might be a company or a residents association. Do you pay ground rent/maintenance charge? If so, who to? Is there a management company?

You need to raise this with the freeholder or management company. Causing disturbance to other residents is always a breach of the lease, and using the property other than as a residential home is likely to be.

I have worked as an advisor to a charitable refuge/hostel (admittedly some years ago) and this set up sounds a bit odd to me. I would not have thought a flat in a small block like this was a suitable location, plus there were legal & health and safety hoops to jump through.

You should rise this as sadly if the situation continues it will almost certainly affect the value of your flat. Unless you are hugely wealthy this is clearly a problem. Plus you don’t deserve to feel scared in your home.

Also, yes, as someone has mentioned, contact your local authority planning dept & explain your concerns, including by reference to safety. If they don’t know about it I would think something has gone wrong.