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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I'm worried my dd13 has PDA (pathological demand avoidance) or is this "normal" bad teenage behaviour?

23 replies

Helpmewhatshouldido · 04/02/2020 19:34

The more I read about PDA (pathological demand avoidance) the more I wonder if my DD has it. From a young age..2 maybe 3 she has had high anxiety about leaving me, I always had to sit in her classes, her nursery, she could never be picked up by a childminder, it always had to be a family member. Took 4 years to settle at primary school and stop crying when I dropped her in. Terrified the night before a school trip or holiday, hysterical crying at home. Sensory issues around food. From age 12 to now it is becoming alot worse and hard to manage. Her room is over the top messy she is not embarrassed atall about friends seeing it, I mean there could be pants with San pro on the floor she does not care. It's like one of those hoarders houses. She constantly tells us to shut up/shouts "idiots" at us, she is obsessed by the internet and certain rappers. I mean really obsessed.. she tries to refuse school but is frightened of breaking school rules in some ways so just does bare minimum re attendance and homework .Simple things like asking her to do homework etc she reacts like a screaming banshee, she is extremely aggressive when stopped from doing inappropriate stuff, like hanging around outside late at night. Since age 12 she has tried smoking vaping and has shoplifted. When caught she goes beserk and doesn't seem to understand why we would be annoyed..accused us of making a fuss. At school she is behaved and the school describe her as passive. She seems to feel inferior to "normal" people, despite having a perfectly normal upbringing, and insists on seeking out people that have social and behavioural problems. My husband and I try so so hard with her and it is exhausting. There is history of autism in my family...can anyone with any experience help me as I am at my wit's end.

OP posts:
Helpmewhatshouldido · 04/02/2020 19:35

Sorry I forgot to switch off voting.

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bigarse1 · 04/02/2020 19:40

I have twins with PDA and other children without. For me the clear difference is that no bribery or punishment has any effect and that any demand creates huge anxiety even if it is something they would enjoy doing

Helpmewhatshouldido · 04/02/2020 19:46

Thank you It is like this for us. Things like holidays, theatre trips provoke meltdowns, even though I know she would enjoy them when she gets there. Whatever we say re behaviour has little or no effect.

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Singlenotsingle · 04/02/2020 19:48

I'd react the same way. Not recommending it but sometimes the rage just comes on.

Helpmewhatshouldido · 04/02/2020 19:54

@Singlenotsingle do you have pda

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Helpmewhatshouldido · 04/02/2020 20:05

Bump. So desperate please anyone?

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Helpmewhatshouldido · 04/02/2020 20:08

Or does anyone know how I can go about getting this moved to the special needs board?

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riotlady · 04/02/2020 20:10

Are you getting any support from GP? I would be looking for a referral to CAMHS as things sound very difficult.

doesthissoundok · 04/02/2020 20:12

Have you requested an assessment for autism? The criteria for this need to be met before you look at 'types' of autism. You could well be right, but you need a good clinician (with an interest in PDA) to be able to pick apart exactly what's happening. This can be much more difficult in some parts of the country where the local authority isn't on board with PDA as a diagnosis.

WellFunnyYouShouldSayThat · 04/02/2020 20:21

Go to GP and ask for a referral to camhs. I would say that, no, it's not normal teenage behaviour and as you've noted a pattern over the last few years, I think there's something that needs looking into and support.

I have experience in this area and I would consider Aspergers and/or EUPD.

Good luck, I feel for you and your DD and I really hope you get some support - even if you just get some professional guidance and do some reading at home. It's so very difficult dealing with these struggles for the whole family, but sometimes half the struggle is learning to adjust a few things to make life easier for you all and your DD.

Christmaspug · 04/02/2020 20:45

It’s really hard getting a diagnosis for girls ,the criteria for assessment is aimed at males re autism .cant have pda If no diagnosis of autism.
My 2 have pda ,and autism and adhd .
My adult son weed all over the house till age 17 and didn’t care .
You need camhs ,get on the waiting list
Get some books on autism in girls so you know what to look for ,speek to school ,tell them she’s masking ,that’s why she’s passive at school..
try some period pants ,easier for girls with asd to manage
Reduce all demands on her to bare minimum,,it makes life easier all round ,makes u look like a crap parent ,but honestly it works

Christmaspug · 04/02/2020 20:47

Oh ,look on Facebook
There is a really good Facebook group about pda ,type in pda and see what comes up ,and join ,you will get lots of help there

Helpmewhatshouldido · 04/02/2020 20:48

Thank you so much for your replies everyone I will go to the GP as soon as possible. She refuses to speak to anyone when I have suggested it, so it's good to hear that people think I can get the ball rolling by myself. It is a big strain, on all of us. When she turned 9 we had another baby and now I'm so frightened he will turn out the same way as I can't cope with years of this.

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Christmaspug · 04/02/2020 20:48

Good luck x

Helpmewhatshouldido · 04/02/2020 20:51

I will do all the things suggested thank you everyone so so much..this is the first time I have told anyone my fears I have been keeping everything to myself

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oohnicevase · 04/02/2020 20:52

Have you not questioned ASD? Rather than just pda? Ask for a referral to cahms and a Ed psych .

WellHolyGodMiley · 04/02/2020 20:57

My son nearly 14 has PDA. He ''presents'' as any typical boy his age UNTIL I want him to do something he doesn't want to do.

I agree with a poster upthread. If my son has decided not to do something there is no bribe in the WORLD that could make him change his mind.

I guess it is anxiety driven, they say it is. I used to get it a bit too when I was younger, I remember freezing on a basket ball court with everybody staring at me and saying ''join in! play!'' so I feel like I know what he's going through when he shuts down and just CANNOT co-operate or participate.

I agree that you have to lower your expectations and reduce your demands. I remember saying to my son when he was younger that I gave up, he could brush his teeth or not brush his teeth, when they fell out, rotten and he had a mouth full of bad teeth from never brushing them and never going to the dentist, I would most likely have died from old age by then as it the effects of not brushing your teeth are not immediate. And then I backed off and never ever mentioned brushing his teeth. Which was torture as he did stop for a while but he is older now and does brush his teeth.

Yehdivvy · 04/02/2020 20:58

PDA Society

Autism in girls

WellHolyGodMiley · 04/02/2020 21:00

If they try to push reward charts on you, they have not listened to you at all. Reward charts are not the right approach but every parenting course and every parenting expert will push them on you.

DOn't worry about your younger child. I knew when my son was 8 months old that he was not.............''biddable'' if that makes sense. From that extremely young age he was not open to be influenced. My older child is a spirited child, but she was also open to be persuaded as a young child. Bribed, influenced, motivated.... this stuff was POSSIBLE with her. My younger child, from the moment I felt his personality emerge, he did nothing he hadn't chosen to do himself.

Gwynfluff · 04/02/2020 21:03

Definitely some normal teenage behaviour there - the squalid room is. But would agree the history and meltdowns suggest maybe ASD which I understand does correlate with PDA.

independentfriend · 04/02/2020 22:09

Differences in home/school behaviour are pretty usual with ASD.

Request an EHC Needs Assessment in parallel with approaching your GP for a CAMHS referral. The major risks seem to me to be:

  • enough naivety to be taken advantage of by others easily (if more street wise than "usual" for ASD)
  • school refusal and worsening anxiety.

Ideally you want support in place for her before she does start school refusing.

Messy room/poor organisational skills - have a read of information about "executive functioning" and consider getting some support from an Occupational Therapist to help her develop these skills. If it is ASD (whether PDA or not) there's likely to be a big chunk of "can't" here as well as a bit of teeange "won't".

WellFunnyYouShouldSayThat · 04/02/2020 22:44

So sorry you've been keeping this all in, it must be an enormous worry.

It's helpful to share, if you feel you can, even if just on here. You are not alone and your DD is not on her own, either. There's many people suffering - it might be helpful for her to put a label on her condition and to meet others who are going through the same.

It can be terribly isolating and can be frightening for her. The uncooperative behaviour can make others react (naturally) as if a child is being 'naughty' this simply isn't the case.

I really hope you get help and some harmony - but do talk to us and try to encouraging your DD to open up - even if just to you.

Look at the 'emotions wheel' to help her identify how she's feeling - naming and accepting the emotion can be very helpful.

Look up validation - 'how your feeling must be really difficult for you' doesn't mean that you are condoning bad behaviour or agreeing with it, just that you accept their feelings and don't make them feel invalidated. It's counter productive.

Good luck to you

IHaveBrilloHair · 04/02/2020 22:51

My 18yr ok has PDA, no diagnosis yet.
She's very different from what you describe though.
That said, don't be terrified of it, it's hard, but they are still great, watch and learn, and you'll get there x

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