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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that my sibling is a narc or has some kind of personality disorder?

22 replies

NotTheMrMenAgain · 04/02/2020 11:34

So, my sibling has always been 'difficult'. Hot tempered, easily offended, bears a grudge, never wrong, but superficially charming. The type of person who is outraged by seemingly slight inconveniences (for instance, a late train) and takes them as a personal attack and will email complaints etc. I believe he thinks he is special and the rest of us are insignificant.

It's been a terrible week - my lovely DF (actually my step dad but raised me) died suddenly last week. It's been an awful shock and DM is struggling to cope. My sibling, who we hadn't seen for a couple of years, came and stayed at DMs house, apparently 'to help'. We don't normally have much contact because sibling doesn't answer calls or reply to texts unless there's something in it for him - contact goes via his wife, who I suspect spends a lot of time pouring oil onto his troubled waters.

Sibling has seemingly enjoyed being at DMs house - time off work, TV/films, takeaways etc. DM paid for him to have a night at a nearby hotel because other relatives were travelling down and needed to spend the night and he refused the sofa - so he enjoyed the pool and facilities at the hotel. He hasn't been much help and doesn't appear to be upset about DF death or DM distress.

I suspect he came down because he likes to play at being the 'big man' and have people think he is doing 'the right thing'. Image and how strangers perceive him is more important to him than family, I think.

Yesterday he was very angry and shouting about how long things are taking - possible autopsy, inquest etc. So we are stuck in limbo at the moment. He shouted at DM - normally she would ignore his behaviour but this time, because she's so emotionally upset, she shouted back at him. He took huge offence at this. Made a huge fuss and packed his stuff to leave. Later, on leaving, he wouldn't say goodbye properly and started shouting when he heard DM telling me how upset she was. This turned into another yelling row with my usually very quiet DM and he physically pushed her over, onto the floor. Then he said it was self-defense and slammed off out the house.

I scooped DM up off the floor and tended to her injuries (bruising). Who does that to an elderly, vulnerable woman - let alone their own lovely DM? I was in so much shock I let him go. If I got my hands on him now I'd happily choke him.

DM is distraught - she said she's lost her DH and now she's lost her DS as well - and she's blaming herself. Saying she should just have let him shout at her and not answer back.

I told DM I think he is a narc or has some other personality disorder because nobody else in my family - or anyone I've ever known (as far as I know) would behave like this. I don't think this normal, at all. Is it normal?

He's gone back home and I suspect played the victim, told his wife DM attacked him and is ungrateful etc. I gather this from what she's said in messages - she doesn't know what happened but knows "what he thinks happened" .

I told his wife I'm sickened by his behaviour, suspect he needs professional help and I'm done.

I don't expect to hear from him or see him again, because he has never apologised for anything in his whole life, as far as I know. I don't want DM to contact him because it just gives him another opportunity to hurt her again.

Thinking back to growing up, I've remembered lots of times when he hurt me, and one time when I had to physically separate him and my nan during an argument as he was going to hit her.

AIBU to say he's dead to me now? It's no real loss for me personally, but my poor, poor DM! I used a line I learnt from Mumsnet - "when someone shows you who they really are, believe them". I think ultimately it's for the best for DM to see him for what he really is - but the timing was the worst possible.

OP posts:
NotTheMrMenAgain · 04/02/2020 11:35

Sorry, this ended up being extremely long winded!

OP posts:
TheFaerieQueene · 04/02/2020 11:42

He sounds vile. I’m sorry you are dealing with this at such a difficult time. I lost my DF last year, so understand the pain you are in managing your grief without his shithole behaviour.

I also feel for his DW. If he is happy to be violent to older women, imagine how he is with her.

Itslookinglikeabeautifulday · 04/02/2020 11:47

Wow, his behaviour has been totally unacceptable. Pushing your elderly mum over?! In “self-defence”?! As the saying goes, you can choose your friends but you can’t choose your family. A horrible time for you and your poor DM - glad you are there to comfort her.

MaMaMaMySharona · 04/02/2020 12:03

Behaviour is definitely not normal. I'd be cutting him out and not looking back, but I understand the situation for your mum is more difficult. It's a very hard time to be pushing people away, but realistically he's not going to be providing support to anyone at the moment (or ever!)

Best to let him get on with things alone and put the ball in his court to rectify things?

ShesGotBetteDavisEyes · 04/02/2020 12:08

Wow - what an awful person he sounds like. Of course this isn’t normal behaviour! I would cut him off - easily - wouldn’t bother me at all. He assaulted your grieving DM - he’s lucky you don’t report him for assault.

I only hope your dm has the self-respect to cut him off too. He sounds like an abusive arsehole - you sound lovely Op - too lovely!Flowers

HelgaHere1 · 04/02/2020 12:12

How old is he?

HelgaHere1 · 04/02/2020 12:14

I would go cautiously - he could wheedle his way back into DM's life at some point in the future and if you cut ties you are not able to influence things.
His behaviour was dire but DM might forgive in the future, it is hard to cut ties with you only son. I would not make final break as you need to always be around to support DM.

Sparkletastic · 04/02/2020 12:14

He sounds vile and quite possibly unsafe for your DM to be around. Is his DW under his spell? If not perhaps speak or write to her to say what happened and why you will no longer see him. Has the funeral happened? If not I would suggest he isn't invited for your DM's sake.

KundaliniRising · 04/02/2020 12:19

He sounds awful and toxic your poor mum Sad

I am with you on the no contact, he is abusive.

I am so sorry for your loss Flowers

JoJoWasAManWhoThought · 04/02/2020 12:20

He may be a narc or have another personality disorder. Who knows? It doesn't really matter. Because what he is is an abusive POS. And one needs no justification or explanation or label for cutting abusive people out of their lives.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 04/02/2020 12:29

I don't think a diagnosis is going to change anything. He's horrible. But although I wouldn't be keen to be in touch with him I definitely wouldn't cut him off entirely.

Your DM will almost certainly forgive him and if you aren't prepared to even pretend to forgive him you won't be around to protect her. Keeping her close is vital.

girlywhirly · 04/02/2020 12:33

I hope you have photographed the bruising, and are considering talking to the police, it’s assault. I certainly hope he doesn’t stand to receive anything from your SF’s will. Is he your full or half sibling? Do tell your SIL that he shouted and pushed your DM over so that she fell and now is badly bruised. She needs to know exactly what happened and that it was his vile temper and aggression that caused it.

He sounds vile and there are narc traits.

messolini9 · 04/02/2020 12:34

Jeeze, OP. Your poor mum. He certainly sounds as if there may be a Cluster-B disorder here, but all you need to know right now is he is a nasty fucker who your mum needs protection from, & commiseration & support about.

DM paid for him to have a night at a nearby hotel because other relatives were travelling down and needed to spend the night and he refused the sofa
He's used to be facilitated & made much of, isn't he. Has your family always trodden on eggshells around him like this? Could a grown man not pay for his own hotel if he refuses to sleep ONE NIGHT on his bereaved mum's sofa? Would any other family member have had the offer of a paid-for night at a hotel - what did the other relatives think of his 'refusal' to stay with his own mum ffs?

DM is distraught - she said she's lost her DH and now she's lost her DS as well - and she's blaming herself. Saying she should just have let him shout at her and not answer back.
No, none of your brother's behaviour is normal.
Your mum's reaction though - that's a very 'normal' response from a woman who has been subjected to long-term abuse or coercive control.
So ... apologies for asking this at a time when you are also bereaved MrMen - but do you feel she responded like this purely from years of being browbeaten by, & appeasing her son? Or has she also learned to appease men from her own dad or either of her husbands? (assuming she was with/married to your bio father too)

I ask because she is going to need so much support & help - & if she had already been conditioned to accept her son's outrageous behaviour by being abused in other relationships, her recovery is going to be harder to process & unpick.

She really must not take it upon herself or blame herself for her son's unpleasantness. It seems like even your SiL has the measure of him -
she doesn't know what happened but knows "what he thinks happened"

Never mind about this, either:
I told his wife I'm sickened by his behaviour, suspect he needs professional help and I'm done.
Yup, high time for you to go NC. but you can't make that decison for your mum - she needs to come to it by herself & given her reaction to his latest twattishness, it's not your brother who needs help - I doubt he would accept it anyway, as no doubt he feels he's perfect - but your mum will definitely need expert, compasssionate, professional support over the next few months.

I am trying to imagine how much harder it must be to have a coercive controller as a son than as a husband. It's easy to see how you mum must feel guilt & responsibility, bt FFS he physically assaulted her, did a DARVO, & SHE is self-blaming? - www.restoredrelationships.org/news/2017/11/07/darvo-deny-attack-reverse-victim-and-offender/

What steps you take next will depend on how able you feel she is to go NC or at least LC with him.
Whatever she chooses, she needs help & education about how these types of men operate, how to accept that he will never change, that it is not her fault, & to learn strategies to protect herself emotionally from his abusive behaviour.

Can you at least start with this? - www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that.pdf

If you have not read Lundy Bancroft - start now! It will help YOU deal with the fallout & grief of having such a brother, & help you unpick & understand a lot of his behaviour. You may never need to see him again - but understanding will bring you some comfort, & knowledge is power.
You clearly want to support your mum & I'm so glad for her that she has you. When you have read the Bancroft book, get a hard copy & give it to your mum. Work through it together. She needs to start learning that it is not her fault, that nothing she does or does not do to appease her son will help or change him, & that she needs to grieve not only her husband, but the son she hoped she had, or is hoping he one day may turn into.

I am so sorry for the mill you have been put through too MrMen.
Flowers
Your brother is an arsehole, wanting to choke him is a normal response, & I hope you & your mum never have to see him or deal with him again. Your poor SiL, too. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you hear a fair bit from her over the coming months.

Please look into counselling & grief therapy for your mum - she is going to need a lot of expert help to learn how to deal with this double whammy. And if you start to feel wobbly - you get some too, ok?
People like your brother can cause others to question their reality - don't let his disgusting behaviour make you or your mum question your own versions of what is right & good in your lives.

puds11 · 04/02/2020 12:34

Well that’s assault! Report him to the police. He’s obviously got anger issues and I’d be very worried about his wife’s safety.

D4rwin · 04/02/2020 12:36

He's awful. It doesn't really matter why. You and your mother don't have to tolerate him. I hope your mum isn't too side swiped by this, you're both dealing with a huge loss. Flowers

Janaih · 04/02/2020 12:43

Gosh what an awful man. So sorry for you and your mum, and for your loss.

Take it slowly. This will not resolve itself in a hurry. Focus on grieving for now and supporting your mum as much as you can Flowers

NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite · 04/02/2020 12:59

AIBU to say he's dead to me now?
I can understand how you feel but try not to say that kind of thing to your Mum. He's her son and she clearly loves him despite his appalling behaviour.
Try and just concentrate on helping your DM through this very sad time and look after each other in your grief.

I am feeling disappointed with a sibling following my DM's recent death and told another sibling how I feel when maybe I shouldn't have. I'm now putting my feelings on the back burner so as not to upset others. It isn't anywhere near as bad as your situation but I am feeling really upset by them though.

Your DM doesn't need to have to deal with you and your brother being at loggerheads right now. Could you leave it until after the funeral before you read your brother the riot act out of your DM's hearing?

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Flowers

Stompythedinosaur · 04/02/2020 13:06

His behaviour is clearly unreasonable, but your post did make me wonder about whether there is a narrative around of him b3ibg the bad child and you the good?

Personality disorders are linked beliefs formed when people try to survive very difficult childhood experiences. Only you can say whether there were issues in they way your brother was cared for as a child that might account for those sorts of difficulties now.

norealshepherds · 04/02/2020 13:07

He sounds awful. I’m so sorry for your lossFlowers

NotTheMrMenAgain · 04/02/2020 13:17

Thank you all for your replies, comments, opinions and kind, kind words - it's making me cry.

It's all just a horrible mess. To answer a few questions - the sibling is 48 years old! DM is 70. He is a full sibling, I'm sorry to say - I'm embarrassed to share genes with him. He doesn't get anything from DFs will and the funeral hasn't happened yet as there needs to be an autopsy.

Yes, he clearly has anger issues. I'm actually not worried about his wife - she knew exactly what he was like when she married him and she 'handles' him, for want of a better expression. She is a lot younger, bigger and stronger than him - he's always been a runt - and I don't think he'd dare raise a hand to her. I honestly can't see why she's with him, at all.

messolini9 thank you for the links and the info - I will read through it all and buy the book! The DARVO thing is exactly what he did! I know, the hotel thing was madness - but that's what he's like, he expects people to facilitate and ease his way through life. I know DM was victim of domestic violence from her first husband - my sperm donor - and she left him when I was a baby. The sibling is older than me and DM has always put his behaviour down to 'a bad start' with her first husband. I know he hit the sibling once when he was 3 or 4 and that's when DM left him.

When she was assaulted yesterday - because that's what it was, assault - she was in shock and then went into a sort of victim mode where she kept saying it was her fault, she must have pushed him into it. It made me sad and angry as I've never heard her speak like that before.

DF was a lovely, gentle man - she said yesterday after it happened that DF never even shouted at her let alone raise a hand to her. Her dad, my DGF, was also a kind, gentle, family-orientated man.

I suggested counselling yesterday, at some point in the future, but DM was dismissive of it. However, I've had good results with it in the past and can access more through work - which I'm going to do once the dust settles.

OP posts:
dottiedodah · 04/02/2020 13:17

Wow he sounds ghastly! WTAF is he thinking .pushing over his DM! I would concentrate on her only ATM.You would be best not to go NC as it may upset her, and leave her vulnerable if she only sees him in her own.He sounds like he has some serious issues ! He may come round and apologise of course (seems unlikely though!) If

NotTheMrMenAgain · 04/02/2020 13:29

Stompy if anything he was the golden child - the first grandchild etc. I was never the scapegoat but it was obvious that his behaviour was to be tolerated - so I put up with him beating me, kicking me, verbally abusing me etc as we grew up. DM did a brilliant job, she loved/loves us ferociously - but it just seems like nothing was ever good enough for the sibling. He always wants and expects more. You could give him a million pounds in one hand and he'd put his other hand out for more.

We used to joke about how he always seemed to land on his feet and I'd say "the devil looks after his own" - but now looking back I think there's a pattern with how he'd go for women with money who would supply him with housing, holidays etc. It's similar with his wife now - he works but her family (abroad) have money and paid for their home and trips etc.

NotEverything I won't be reading him the riot act - he doesn't take criticism kindly and will just be aggressive or violent (past experience tell me this). I don't think I'll see him again - he won't be coming to the funeral. I don't think he'll contact DM again - he'll be waiting for a grovelling apology from her, which will never come if I have anything to do with it!

OP posts:
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