To think parents completing their childrens A level work is unfair.

[GlamGiraffe]

I dont mean helping a bit, I mean doing the coursework themselves.

DS is in the final year of a levels and goes to a school with a particularly high population of parents who are artists, designers etc by profession. He is battling to complete his work for both art and dt and despite working away at school and home is not managing to keep up to anything near the same level as a lot of the students. Recently they have been laughing and commenting about how their parents do all of their work, one girls mother apparently has written more than 80% of her history of art essay alone which comprises a significant proportion of the mark, another boys mother has produced all of his DT work and produced all the drawings etc. These are just as examples of the type of things that are happeneing).

I am aware we all try to help our children but surely there has to be a line (And we dont all have the same suitable skills). Children are not being marked against their peers any longer. A different marking system needs to be instigated. Perhaps smaller projects only carried out in school?
Am I unreasonable to think the system is now ridiculously unfair?

I’m at a Russell group uni and the pressure some of the parents put on their DC is horrific. We caught one case of plagiarism as the dad (a lecturer at another “good” uni) had used the track changes function on her essay but they’d not accepted all changes and uploaded it with the tracked changes still there!! All the comments had the authors name as “dad”. They tried to say it was because she used his laptop but how many dads call themselves dad!! The girl was mortified and left the course. He was definitely pushing her to do it.

It's not fair, but I'm afraid that there's a lot of turning a blind eye, and it's worse now that everyone hires a tutor.

At university, they pay people to write their essays / dissertations and the Plagiarism software doesn't always pick up on it. A lecturer I know at quite a prestigious university admitted they have students (often from a certain country) who seem to barely be able to speak English in tutorials produce essays that are graded as a first.

It's shit but I think those that cheat tend to get found out eventually.

I find this astonishing. I loathed the ‘can you build’ projects from primary school and always very happy to leave it to them at secondary. The English and History coursework by A level is so technical that I’m sure I’d do a worse job than them anyway!

I get that in the long term, these kids will suffer for the fact that their parents did their coursework etc but what effect does this have on students who try to get by on their own merit? If you’re compared to a class of your peers, and they’re all cheating and you aren’t - you’d look like you’re falling behind by comparison... when really you could be doing just fine or even ahead of the rest??

@Noconceptofnormal That is quite common among international students. There is definitely something fishy about some of the English language scores they claim to arrive with. At the RG university I used to work for, we made the assessment a presentation on our masters course. Still you'd get the impression that some students were reading out someone else's words (poorly).

Tbh, I wouldn't have any coursework in what I teach that wasn't produced under controlled conditions (if I could). Sadly, my superiors insist that 'and we have no exams!!! 😁😁' is the way to recruit high quality students.

Are they going to cheat all through their kids life for them? University and beyond?
These parents are doing their kids NO favours and long term YOUR independent kids who have been allowed to fail or succeed for themselves will be happier, more resilient and self confident.

@Logfootlightoe When you work with young adults, you do often wonder this about contemporary parents. Honestly, I'm almost surprised that the universities haven't started insisting we do parents' nights (like in school) yet.

Not all of them. Obviously. But there are always enough parents phoning you up or emailing you (or in some cases insisting on meetings with their adult child) that you wonder if you don't, in fact, work in a school rather than a university.

I can belief it Woo
Apparently some of my DD's tutors used to ask her if she was an orphan as they had never heard from us. We dropped her off at the beginning of her first term and didn't go back until she graduated which led people to believe we didn't actually exist! Apparently most of her peers' parents were on the phone to tutors regularly and visited several times a term. Which I find frankly bizarre. What age are these young people going to be allowed some independence? I wouldn't fancy employing someone who had had that degree of parental input into their 20s.

Apparently most of her peers' parents were on the phone to tutors regularly and visited several times a term. Which I find frankly bizarre. What age are these young people going to be allowed some independence?

Sorry but if you are talking about people over the age of 18 I don't believe this for a minute. Tutors aren't going to chat on the phone to parents of adults as that would be breaking data protection laws. I agree that some parents (certainly not most) try but that doesn't mean they get anywhere.

The parents certainly done get anywhere. But they do try anyway. And often over something ridiculous (how dare you expect my 21 year old daughter to get the bus and visit a place that's in the town she grew up in?).

It certainly isn't all the students. Lots of them are very independent and find it a bit mind boggling that other people's mums are checking all their work for them etc. Thing is, you don't tend to notice them to the same extent because they're just busy getting on with things. They aren't in your face with complaints and ridiculous requests. Nor are their parents.

But there are increasing numbers of pushy parents who think university is just an extension of school. And universities are often crap at setting boundaries and explaining the limits of what they can do.

Now that parents are expected to pay significant amounts of money towards their DC's university education, it's not surprising that they feel entitled to express their opinions.
University is a business now. Parents aren't trusting them to just get on with it and do a good job - parents are looking at what they do more closely and want to ensure their dc are getting good value for money. Hence the increase in phone calls wanting direct feedback. Back when I went to university, my parents didn't even see the place!

The parents certainly done get anywhere. But they do try anyway.

Yes some try but it's not the case that most parents chat to the tutors about their children as suggested by the poster.

Now that parents are expected to pay significant amounts of money towards their DC's university education, it's not surprising that they feel entitled to express their opinions. University is a business now.

They've always had to contribute depending on their income and universities have always been a business. The only thing that has changed is some people's attitudes.

Ha! I wouldn't have a hope of helping DS1. He's studying Maths, Chemistry and Computing

I use to do my brothers art homework until year 9, he was beyond useless and would give me his pocket money.

He crossed the line when he submitted my English coursework for his GCSE which I got a B for and he got a frigging A. I don't know how anyone didn't cop it as he's bloody dyslexic!

I think it’s awful but the parents doing it think everyone else is awful for leaving their children to sink or swim.

Many universities are relying more and more on continually assessed group work and assignments and ditching the end of semester exams. I understand why they are doing this. In real life, most work is much more likely to involve team project tasks. However, in terms of individual assessments, I have heard lecturers complaining that some parents are overly active in writing up the final essay. Universities are brilliant at scanning for plagiarism but there is no way to check if a parent is involved in a write up.

My parents didn't contribute financially and it wasn't always the case that the amount of maintenance loan a student was entitled to, was calculated on parents' income.

@Aderyn19's post is an illustration of the attitude that will see lecturers doing parents' nights at some point.

My parents didn't contribute financially and it wasn't always the case that the amount of maintenance loan a student was entitled to, was calculated on parents' income.

I went to university in the 80s before loans and my parents had to pay the whole lot as did many others. Most people's parents had to contribute at least something unless they were on very low incomes Nobody has to pay the whole lot now however high their income.

Err I don't think I used the word "chat" woodchuck99 . I said they phoned. No mention of what response they got.

The amount of grants and loans are calculated on the assumption of contribution but that's not the same as parents "needing to contribute". There are those who simply refuse and no way to force them to do so.

My parents simply refused to waste the money on me. Which leads to a lot of difficulty with studying. I went at a time of grants and loan combined and couldn't get a loan because my parents wouldn't contribute and refused to give me a letter stating such, because they liked to show off to everyone about how much I was costing them. I was forced to get a bank loan to top up my grant to get a student loan and undertake a year out to pay the bank loans back. I'd no option to work due to the degree I was doing and it was incredibly hard and humiliating.

It wasn't until a chance comment at the end of my masters I realised I wasn't alone. Then when I worked as a lecturer I saw others in the same situation I'd been in.

I'm not saying parents didn't help in the past, but there wasn't the direct correlation between parental income and level of financial assistance required.
When I went to university students decided for themselves whether to borrow the maximum or minimum amount of student loan allowed. By the time ds1 went, this was calculated on our income and the amount he could borrow didn't even pay his rent. So parents find themselves paying a lot more than they might have anticipated or can easily afford, since the family's other outgoings aren't taken into account when these limits are decided. It does result in parents feeling personally invested in the degree.
Before you all think I'm bat shit crazy though, I am going to add that I am not one of those mums who contact tutors and the extent of my involvement was confined to nagging ds to get his arse out of bed and work since it was costing me lots of money