To ask work to pay for Hotel

[tealcoat]

I live in the South West but a portion of our business is London based. Work are sending me on a training course which starts at 9am in London.

‘Standard practice’ is for people going to London is to catch a 5am train and so go there and back in a day. People travelling like this in the business isn’t too uncommon though wasn’t part of my job description. I’m very much based in the South West overall.

I have a number of chronic health conditions that work are aware of though rarely impact my performance, eg. I still work overtime etc. I mask it all very well. But I find waking up very early very difficult, partly because of medication I take daily when I go to sleep. I would feel quite unwell during the day and not be able to focus (on the training course that they’re paying for).

Work have said that they won’t pay for a hotel for me to travel to London the night before.

AIBU to challenge this? I think they forget that I have health difficulties and I really don’t think I should have to pay for a hotel out of my own pocket.

I would email and say that as reasonable adjustment they need to enable you to travel the night before and pay for accommodation.

Anything before 5am is actually still the night before IMO. If you need to board the train at 5am, then they're asking you to get up unreasonably early.

Bully for people who can do that and get through the day, but I'm not one of them.

Have you costed out how much the difference is between travelling on Sun and getting a cheap hotel for Sun night compared to travelling on Mon morning? Given that Sun rail fares are usually cheaper, it may mean that the cost difference overall is negligible so your work may agree to cover it after all?

I used to travel to London frequently from Exeter. If you go the night before you actually save the company a great deal of money. The early train is so expensive. There is a Great Western in Sussex road around the corner from Paddington wher you can get a cheap single room. It’s on suite and a continental breakfast is provided. Catching the train the evening before will cost much less even taking the hotel cost into account.

En-suite

I would definitely challenge this. If the train is at 5am, and it takes half an hour to get to the station, then presumably you'd have to get up at 3.45 at the latest? Tell them there is no point going on a (presumably expensive) training course if you're half asleep for the sake a couple of hundred pounds in a hotel. (Though if they're as stingy as they sound, it'll probably be a PremierInn!)
Ridiculous to expect anyone to do it, never mind someone with your health conditions. You could also point out the unreliability of trains and that you might easily miss the start of the day if the 5am train were running late.
And don't forget that you are owed time off in lieu for the overnight!

Great idea about the ‘saving the company money’ angle! When I first mentioned it they said the didn’t want booking a hotel to become the norm for people so I didn’t push it in front of my other colleagues.

My normal start time is 9am 😂

I wasn’t sure if this is something to talk to Hr about, or if that would be escalating it unnecessarily

And yes, train fares before 10am are extortionate, so you could well be saving them money. Don't forget to bill for a decent dinner, though!

And booking a hotel should be the norm - tight fuckers!

Quite normal at my place of work too. From an employer's perspective I think they may question whether you are able to complete your role if you challenge it, regardless of it not being in your job description.

You are not entitled to time off in lieu for overnight. No chance.

I was worried about bringing up the health stuff but it’s good to hear that people think they’re being unreasonable anyway by asking people to travel so early!

@lostelephant surely that goes against a lot of anti discrimination law?

So far as them questioning if I’m competent

I used to travel for work. The general guidance was that we should not need to leave home before 7am. I would say a 5am start is far to early to then expect you to concentrate on training in something new. Peak rail fares are expensive, so if you went the night before you might be able to get an off peak at least for the outward journey - this might help you negotiate with your employer as it would partly offset the hotel cost.

I too was going to suggest the money saving aspect of a cheapish hotel but train travel off peak- do the sums and include it in your email. I would also point out that its for medical reasons, and not something you'd brag about to colleagues!

Also, if you were to travel at 5am, would they be paying you the additional hours of your time? or would it be time-in-lieu?

I’ll do some sums and have a look. They don’t generally pay overtime, if we have to work excessive hours they say we can take them back within the same week.

But it’s a bit of an odd rule because if I’ve needed to work crazy hours then I normally don’t have time that week to take the extra time off.

So not really expecting anything back.

You’d have to be some sort of Gordon Gekko type to still be alert and listening properly during the afternoon on training course. YANBU!

Contact HR and refer them to the duty to make reasonable adjustments for disability. I

I live in the south west too. If it’s an early London start I travel the night before and stay with friends. Is this an option for you?

If not do the sums - as others have said, the cost might be very similar.

I think I'd say "I take medication which means I won't be able to do this"

I worked for a company like this (it was a charity) and was in a similar situation. They refused to make any adjustments and didnt give any TOIL despite leaving before 7am and getting back after 8pm as they "dont include travel time as TOIL". I was exhausted for the rest of the week.

Definitely challenge it, I've had some awful employers when it comes to reasonable adjustments but I would be having a quiet word and explaining why you need this.

I'd say this is very much in the realm of reasonable adjustment, OP.

A colleague has to drive 70 miles (mostly on rural roads, so a 2-hour journey) approx twice a week. It means leaving at 7 am, and not getting home much before 7, often a lot later if there are traffic problems.

She emailed her manager suggesting that, instead of doing a 140-mile round trip twice, she could save 140 x 45p in mileage and stay overnight in a travel lodge, and that it would work out cheaper, plus it would be far less exhausting for her and be better for her health. Her (newly appointed) manager refused point blank and didn't even give a reason.

Colleague replied to the email pointing out that not only would it save money, it would be consistent with the organisation's environmental policy and would constitute a reasonable adjustment under the DDA. And she copied the HR diversity/equalities bod in to her reply.

HR were ringing round the building trying to find the manager within minutes. She "changed her mind" about the staying overnight and has been sent on at least 2 courses to do with equality issues and is having extra supervisions with her manager.

Hahaha! A great win for your colleague.

I don’t really know anyone who lives in London, a night in someone’s sofa wouldn’t exactly do me much good anyway.

Thanks for all the replies! I’m feeling more confident about challenging them now.