Flexible Contacts = taking advantage.

[37KAT]

My DD applies for a job advertised as part time at one of the big supermarkets. She is in her gap year, hence part time role.
She was given a contract which specified '9 hour flexible' she also had to fill in all the days she would be available for work, which of course she did as she was job seeking!
The reality of this is that she has a regular 9 hours a week over 3 days. They can then give her as much overtime as they want to with a weeks notice - supposed to be 4 weeks notice but they ignore that.

This would make sense if it was on the days she was working 3 hours, however this 'flexible' contract gives them license to fill her non contracted days with as much overtime as they chose to as she said she was available at the interview.

If she says she is unavailable on a non contracted day, she has been told in no uncertain terms that she will face a disciplinary. She applied for a part time job and has signed away her full week to this supermarket.
There have been occasions when she has worked 40+ hours. I am proud at how dedicated and reliable she has been but they show zero flexibility in return.

She is trying to book a Saturday off in April and has told them it's for a university open day and they are saying no as it's a Saturday - since when can employers dictate what day of the week you can take annual leave?
The managers sound appalling, bullying, unorganised.
I am relieved that this is not her forever job and if it becomes unbearable she can leave - it's going that way.

I am shocked that this sort of thing goes on. There must be many people who have no choice but to put up with these 'flexible' crappy dictating contracts. Its been an eye opener.
I would also have expected better from this major supermarket.

How much leave has she got? I would get dd to say she must take the day off and if the sack her, then you stand up and question this. They can’t keep threatening her. She only needs to do 9 hours.

Shocked that a business can dictate that you can't have leave on their busiest day? (Saturday)
Still I bet you spent a lifetime shopping there and enjoyed the convenience of their opening hours

They can then give her as much overtime as they want to with a weeks notice - supposed to be 4 weeks notice but they ignore that.

So they can't do it...? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Someone needs to stand up to these people and go higher in the company to complain. Tbh I think your daughter if she is on a gap year would be better with a temping job anyway as it would look better on her cv unless she specifically is intending to work in retail. So maybe it may as well be her...?

I used to work at a supermarket. 12 hours round collage (4x4). The overtime book was available but not compulsory. Lots of the older ladies had children and wanted school holidays. I wanted to work school holidays.

What your daughter is faced with sounds like a nightmare.

It is because there are more people needing and willing to do the work than jobs.
On the positive side it will motivate her through uni and into a career.

since when can employers dictate what day of the week you can take annual leave?

Since always, I'm afraid. They can, in fact, dictate precisely when you take every day of your annual leave. 'Course, nobody actually does that cos they wouldn't retain any employees. But they're within their rights here, I'm afraid - the principle is "if you don't like it, there's the door".

@Buster72 that is ridiculous, so you're saying that if you work in retail you should not take a Saturday off? So that is your prospect of a weeks holiday or worse still a fortnights holiday gone.

It is exactly your point of view that has opened my eyes and made me sympathetic to retail workers who are forced to work for consumers convenience.

What does her contract say about annual leave?

Which supermarket is it? Tesco by any chance? Their staff always look as miserable as sin.

I used to work at head office for a big supermarket. Can you tell me or dm the supermarket. I can give your daughter contacts, if it's that chain.

We knew the ins and outs of all our competitor contract etc. Tgis doesnt sound right

Aprey meant to say he in head office.

@AlwaysCheddar it doesn't specify, it just says how much it accrues. They don't seem to take much notice of the contract when they're dictating the terms, funnily enough they're quick to mention it to DD if she wants to have a say in anything.

I think there being a bit twatish an could deal with it better.

That said however, they offer the jobs out due to the nature of their business and you, as the employee are contracted to fulfil the needs of that business. If you offer your self up as fully flexible and they have business needs they will expect you to do it. Only because its to fulfil a business need, they dont offer jobs to provide people with an income they offer jobs as a business need.
Like I said before though they are kind of being twats as there is a fine line of give and take, employees need to remember the above but employers need to remember that employees are people and stuff happens/changes. If they dont they get high staff turnover and low moral.

Surely they can cover a Saturday with 3 months' notice. They are being unreasonable. People could be off sick on a Saturday, what would they do then?

I'd advise her to be applying somewhere else. No part time job is worth that shit. And the employers are being thoroughly stupid, as staff may be ten a penny, but good, reliable staff are not. And it doesn't make you unreliable if you need to take one busy day off in three months' time, FFS.

Another thing she could do is join the shopworker's union and ask them to advocate for her. But I don't think the employers are worth her trouble, the bunch of stupid wankers.

What happens if she just says no?

I'll bet she won't get a disciplinary, they're just trying to scare her. Unless the HR person has said that, if call bollocks.

In fact tell her to go to HR and tell them how she's being treated!

The contract is a two way agreement.

@Juliette20 exactly, I really don't feel it is worth it. She is looking for an alternative PT job however they are few and far between hence putting up with this nonsense.
Some people must be permanently putting up with this.

Eff that!
They can't make her do any overtime! They're bullying her and scaring her into doing it.
Get your DD into the union and tell her to say no at overtime and see what they do. If they even try to give her a disciplinary they'd be shot to flames.
They can't dictate what what days she has off either! Tell her to contact HR She's given more than enough notice for that holiday in April for them to find cover.
Take it further.
Most places like 2-4 weeks notice for holiday and she gave much more than that.

That just sounds normal for retail these days. I am not saying it is right but I can't see what can be done to change it. Businesses know that if a person isn't happy with their rules they can always find someone else who is willing to follow them. It is shit that workers are treated like this and employers can get away with it.

The Saturday in April isn't over Easter weekend or anything like that is it. Or school holidays. Maybe too many people have already booked that day off so there is no one to cover.

@PixieDustt it doesn't matter how much weeks notice you give if three people booked the day off before the OPs daughter then there is not much the business can do.

OP is there any chance of your daughter getting a shift swap instead of taking it as holiday.

We knew the ins and outs of all our competitor contract etc. This doesnt sound right

I agree I think the store she is at has some managers who aren't doing what they are meant to. If no one challenges it then they get away with it.

@TreeTopTim she asked a manager for a holiday form and before any dates were mentioned the manager said ' I hope it isn't a Saturday as I'll say no'. They seem to have installed a blanket ban on Saturday leave!

There is also a weird balance on the thread between 'loads of people want the jobs' and then 'poor business what do they do on Saturdays'

Well if it's true that loads of people want more jobs then take on additional Saturday staff if they are short then they need to look after the staff they have.

It really depresses me on MN the extent to which people make the employer king and tell people they have to put up with all manner of shit for a paultry wage.

Legally an employer can dictate when an employee takes annual leave. Though they would have to give sufficient notice.

Is the Saturday one of her 3 hour days? If so could she try swapping with a colleague?

The Saturday is in April. Basically they are saying she can never have a Saturday off. Hardly the same as being told yesterday she can't have today off (reasonable!)

@Teateaandmoretea I agree. When I was young I had a Saturday job as did the majority of my friends. I understand now that this was to enable the week workers to have weekends off.
Kids just can't get Saturday jobs these days, they don't seem to exist and if they do they need to be 16+. Having a teenager working in retail has been a massive eye opener of what a bum deal retail workers get. My DD worked Boxing Day for regular (low) pay no bonus or lieu time. She was told she had to or face a strike on her file.. people are putting up with this as there will be someone else to fill their shoes if they don't.