To think HS2 won't benefit the North and should be scrapped in favour of HS3?

[Dividednation]

Using AIBU for the voting as I'm interested in people's actual views on this.

I live in London, and I''m interested in what people who live "in the North" (very broad generalisation there) think about HS2. Yes I do know actual Northerners - show horror even though I'm a metropolitan southerner type - but not enough to get a real sense of the general consensus about this issue among Northern communities, and I'm struggling to get a real sense from the media reporting. HS2 supporters would have us believe that it will filter wealth from London up north, but I am inclined to think this is a daft scheme and all it will do is bring more people and wealth down to London. (This is notwithstanding the environmental argument against HS2 which seems compelling. I do support train investment in general for less reliance on cars, but the HS2 route destroys green belt and ancient protected woodland so it's defeated it's object there).

Surely the money would be better spent on HS3 / Northern powerhouse rail / whatever you want to call it - a high speed rail link between the main northern cities creating a "hub". The research I've read suggests this would reinvigorate the economy in the north of England far more effectively, by creating a hub city ("northern powerhouse") whereby people could work, commute and travel quickly and efficiently between say Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield and the wealth that would generate would be more impactful on the North both economically and culturally.

So, if you live in the North, AIBU to say HS2 should be scrapped?

YANBU - HS2 will not help the North should be scrapped in favour of HS3
YABU - HS2 will be good for the North and should go ahead

leeds - manchester is currently a total joke.

ticket policies and pricing throughout the uk : joke.

timetables throughout the uk : joke.

We need a per-mile tariff regardless of time of day, and fast, modern, capacious and reliable connections between major hubs, feeding into integrated-timetabled feed services out to towns, suburbs & villages.

Well, if HS2 really was about just shaving off journey times into London, it would indeed be a £100bn white elephant. But of course, it's nothing to do with that - MP's just said that to 'sex up the dossier', and they're bitterly regretting it now.

I'm originally from the North, down in London now, and I think it'll be an amazing catalyst for the North, utterly transformative - and the fact that, even with the costs spiralling repeatedly, it's still worth doing, points to the value of what it'll bring.

I just think the people saying 'Why would I want to get to London 20 minutes faster' just have no idea what's being built here - and that's not their fault, they just haven't had it spelt out.

'amazing catalyst for the North, utterly transformative '

Any chance you could spell out how?
I have seen some convincing arguments about how it will improve things for people living along the lines to London as it will free up capacity for more local trains, but nothing specific about how it will improve things in the north, just vague assurances that it definitely will.

I think it's the price that is the problem and I don't see hs2 reducing that. For some trains It is only 1.5 hr from crewe to London (there are others which are 2-3hours), its the £150 return price to use the quicker train that is the issue.

It's wrecking our beautiful countryside and all major stations have trains running to London anyway. Something like two hours to central London.
Plus, no disrespect but wtf up here wants to work in London it's a cesspit.

Am in Scotland, grew up in the North of England, still spend a lot of time there (travelling by train).

We need HS2. It is not about getting to London faster (really, who cares), it is about getting the high-speed trains off the existing lines to free up capacity for more local, stopping services. Right now our network combines high-speed trains and local stopping services and freight all on the same network, which slows everything down.

It will mean destroying some countryside. It will mean destroying a lot less countryside than new roadbuilding does every year, though, and it will mean more capacity for train passengers and freight which gets both off the roads and reduces air pollution.

It won't fix ALL the North's transport problems and we still need a lot more investment in infrastructure, not just headline-grabbing stunts like taking the franchise off Northern (although I won't shed many tears for them). But HS2 is still needed.

Agree with @53rdway HS2 isn't really about getting to London faster it's about capacity east and west coast main lines are full we need extra space , hopefully they will then be able to run more local services. Personally I think we should have HS2 and hs3 . BJ needs to keep the northern vote so see if he okays the money for hs3. The north needs tens of billions spending to get anywhere near southern standards of transportation.

Hs2 will get freight off the road

Released capacity essential to deliver major regional transport plans Midlands Engine Rail and Northern Powerhouse Rail; HS2 frees up space for 144 extra freight trains per day, enough to transport over 2.5million more lorries' worth of cargo on our railways each year.

HS2 isn’t about saving 20 minutes for passengers it’s surely about freight which our roads can’t cope with

I’m not a great fan, I live in an area that will stand to have the most HS2 and disruption between B and L

But can people start realising it isn’t about time

Sorry53rd I hadn’t scrolled right to the bottom, wasn’t meaning to repeat what you’ve already said

I'm in Leicester, which has great links to London but virtually nothing running east or west and prices are horrendous. £178 day return to London.

HS2 won't help us at all.