AIBU to not understand why this is not offered to women under 45?

[StripyHorse]

DD1 brought a letter home about the HPV vaccine. As I completed the form and explained to her what it was for she said that the boys also had a letter about it. I hadn't realised that boys are now included and being nosy, googled it.

What I also found out, is that it is offered to MSM (men who have sex with men) up to the age of 45 because 'they do not benefit indirectly from women being vaccinated'. I don't have an issue with this at all, I am all for anyone who is at risk being vaccinated.
www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/hpv-human-papillomavirus-vaccine/

I admit I do not know a huge amount about this, and someone may come on to explain that vaccinating women under 45 (who were too old for the vaccine when it was introduced) is not effective - in which case, fair enought.

But, if that is not the case, AIBU to think that if it is offered to men, it should also be offered to women?

@rainbunny it isn’t about more sexual partners in your 40s. It is about the vaccine making you more protected if you already have HPV which the majority of adults do. I had it because I know I have HPV and want to do everything I can to help my body fight it. When you are low it can kick in.

@cptartapp you are correct, I am sorry.
I must have misread it. Makes it more annoying as my year 9 is a July baby so has he been born 2 months later he would have been able to have it.
I found this online:

“a catch-up programme for older boys is not necessary as evidence suggests they're already benefiting greatly from the indirect protection (known as herd protection) that's built up from 10 years of the girls' HPV vaccination programme”

Is this enough then for me to not be concerned about my boys not having it? Unless they are gay or experimenting, in which case they can go and get it for free?

It's assumed that over 80% of women will have caught one or more HPV strain by the time they're 50, which is why it's thought there is no need to vaccinate them.

I have never had an abnormal smear result, yet due to the new way of testing, was positive for HPV at last smear test (no abnormal cells found). I did also have a colposcopy about 3 years ago (for another reason) and nothing found, the letter doesn't mention if HPV was tested for and I've had no way of contracting it since.

My understanding is that it can remain dormant for many years and not show up in testing until for whatever reason, being run down etc, it might surface. Can anyone confirm this? FWIW I wasn't run down at the time AFAIK.

Apparently quite a few women have tested positive for HPV sincethe new way of testing came in. I understand that out of over 200 strains 40 affect the genitals of which 13 can cause cancer, 16 & 18 being the most likely. does anyone know how many of these (13) strains the smear tests for? The booklet just says it tests for the types that can cause cervical cancer.

@Expo do you have any links to the info you have on the vaccinations helping those who've tested positive for HPV with abnormal cells? Were you advised that the vaccinations might help you? Have things improved for you since your biopsy?

I'm wondering if the HPV jabs would help anyone who's tested positive for HPV and, for example, is immuno compromised? (chemo treatment etc)

Expo - I think you misunderstood my meaning.

I was talking about the case where a women in her forties is tested and doesn't have one of those 4 strains and therefore might be a candidate for the vaccine. I was only theorising that the NHS probably doesn't see a cost benefit in offering the HVP vaccine for free to a woman in her forties partly due to an assumption that she will have fewer future sex partners and is at a statistically lower risk of getting one of the HPV strains.

Actually in the USA the FDA has raised the age recommendations to include women up to the age 45 getting the vaccine now.

@over50andfab when I went for my colposcopy they said the the smear does not test for cervical cancer, it tests for hpv and abnormal cells. If your test is hpv positive but there are no abnormal cells then you will be called back in a year to have another smear, most of the time the hpv has gone because your body fights it off. If you have hpv and abnormal cells then you will be referred to colposcopy where they will put a dye on your cervix which they can then see the abnormal cells and will take a biopsy.

This new way of testing is really positive as it means women with hpv will be tested more regularly.

Unfortunately I am not sure whether the vaccine is effective if you already have the bad strain of hpv but my opinion is that whatever strain you have or do not have is one out of a very large number of strains and vaccinated against the strains is a very good idea

@its2019ffs yes I understand about clearing it etc and not worried, just want to be informed. My colposcopy was done as part of something else and there was never any mention of being tested for HPV either at the time or in the results letter. I do also get that if anything had been found - which it wasn't - it wouldn't necessarily lead to cervical cancer.

Ok, so the smear testing done now only tests initially for the high risk HPV strains - those that might potentially cause cervical cancer. So even though there's a very good chance I'll clear it, I think it's also safe to say I do have one of the "bad strains". This is why I was intrigued by Expo's post.

mindutopia that's really interesting thank you.

It's interesting about the vaccine being available if you pay.

If you pay it’s about £150 per jab, with 2 needed if under 15, 3 jabs if over 15. My nephew missed out getting it free by a year so at least there’s the option, though pricey.

I paid for mine (it then became free a few months later ), I went to boots to have it done (you can get your advantage points. I had tested negative for HPV, although the tests aren’t as reliable for men. But even if you have HPV it can prevent you contracting other strains etc, so it is worth it.

What I don’t understand is why 45 years old. What happens at 46?

From what I can work out, it is the age range that trials and tests have been done on for the vaccine to be licensed.

I have considered identifying as 45 (might take quite a bit of hair dye)

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7515235/Give-ADULT-cancer-fighting-HPV-jab-save-thousands-lives-experts-demand.html

I know the daily mail has a very mixed offering of good health stuff and wooo health stuff and things cause/don't cause cancer from one day to the next, but this article had some interesting points, if they are true.

One day I will get round to checking all the references in it.

So I’ve just been looking and it seems I can (as a woman under 45) pay to have the course of vaccines at Boots. The cost is £465 but I’m struggling to understand if it is worth it?

I’m sexually active, but only ever had one partner. So my understanding is that I may already have a strain of Hpv but there is no test to determine this? So the vaccination would essentially be to safeguard just in case we split/one cheated? Is that correct?

In most countries you can get the HPV vaccine at any age. The NHS doesn’t offer it because of cost

Thanks @Melroses that article ties in with what Expo was saying. I agree though, the sources need checking and of course with it being the fail it all reads a bit scaremongery.

It’s been a big enough push for the vaccine to be given to boys. I wonder if with more trials it will be extended to anyone with low immune systems?

As an aside, I love the product advertising that appears next to threads like these...cheers MN but no Durex needed atm thanks as no sex being had 😁

...even of the extra safe variety!

@over50andfab have just seen your question. Melroses has put the link to the article. Yes I know is the daily mail but the Spanish doctor who has led the research gives me hope it is the truth. And then I thought I have nothing to lose by giving it a go...

Ps I have some kind of view that even if you have a bad strain of hpv and it is lying dormant ready to kick in when you are running low etc that the vaccine will help that not happen.

Yes - that is what I took away from the article. That HPV hides from the immune system and once the system is woken up, it gets rid of it. Which is what you see happen with common warts and verrucas.

Whether this is applicable to the strains that like a cervix - who knows.

But like you say, there is nothing to lose by being vaccinated except the money.

@Melroses yes exactly. And even then the money is a risk to take if you have been through a biopsy already, have had further episodes of abnormal cells and may just may stop onset of cancer.

Some bits do read as a bit sensationalist, and I'm not sure how reliable all the info in it is. However the way it explains the immune response seems plausible, in that we might never know if we clear the virus totally (ie create antibodies) or it just goes into hiding again. Apparently even if we clear a particular strain, it is possible to become reinfected. So much study still to do on this.

Interesting what it says about the 0ver 60s, seeing that smears stop at 65.

Also, take the flu jab - this protects against the most prevalent 3-4 strains (depending on which is given) and it is understood that it might not prevent these or other strains from being caught totally, but can reduce the impact of any that are.

I think this is the source it was taken from: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303686

Just confuse things even more, this is from the Superdrug website and says it’s free to anyone up to age 25?

It is free up to 25, ad long as someone would have been eligible for it in Year 8. This is taken from the NHS website.

”People who were eligible for HPV vaccination in school Year 8 but who missed it can still be vaccinated on the NHS up to their 25th birthday.”

My son is 14 and unable to have the vaccine free via the NHS. OIt has been brought in for boys this year, but only for those in Y7/Y8 - he's a couple of months too old (Y9) and so cannot have it! I have triple checked this with our GP too. It's hundreds of pounds privately, which I just cannot afford. The only way for him to get it on the NHS is via GUM clinics, by saying he is gay/bi/unsure. This seems nuts to me that they've put the cutoff in like this - boys like DS (who has never even kissed anyone else so hasn't caught HPV so far) born before march or april 2006 won't get it unless they pay.

It really worries me as both my MIL and FIL died of HPV related cancers in the last few years.

@Roomba my nephew is in a similar situation in that he just misses out. However think of it this way, if your son is heterosexual then, unless he ends up going for much older women, he would only be having sex with girls/women already vaccinated. This will in turn protect him.

Btw, if you did decide to get your son vaccinated, under 15s only need 2 jabs, whereas over 15s need 3 - ie cost more.