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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Cleaner behaviour reasonable?

59 replies

Cookiecrumblepie · 27/01/2020 18:11

My cleaner has started coming early/late by a few hours and today she didn’t show at all. I texted her and she said she was trying to come but had lost her Oyster card. I have to ask her directly when she will come and she always replies ‘around 12’, never a specific time.

I pay her £12.50 an hour cash in hand to clean a 1 bedroom 1 bathroom flat (2 hours). My flat is very tidy and clean (she has said it’s an easy job)
Is this pay rate reasonable?
Is her lateness etc reasonable?

I ask because every cleaner I’ve had has been similar - either not doing a good job or being a bit late here and there once they’ve been a few times and are comfortable. I’ve tried both through agency and by referral.

What are others experiences?

OP posts:
poorexcuse · 27/01/2020 20:33

I'm an independent cleaner who works with other cleaners. All our clients have regular time slots and the only reason we would ever detract from these times is illness or upon the clients wishes. Timing is always an issue as some clients want a deep clean which is from top to bottom and others want a polish and hoover. I think 2 hours is longer than needed but it's the total area to be covered that needs judging. Can you ask for an hour instead. She should be able to hoover. Wipe down kitchen and bathroom in that amount of time. The following week she can polish from top to bottom and hoover and mop. £12.50 the going rate but not being on time is a huge issue. I'd probably give her another chance after pulling her up on it. Not on.

Original poster
Cookiecrumblepie · 27/01/2020 20:39

Thanks all, very helpful! Normally she doesn’t clean the oven/microwave etc so she just cleans toilet, bathroom and kitchen. No laundry etc, but she does empty the bins. She’s coming tomorrow so I’m going to ask her to clean some specific things!

OP posts:
WipeYourFeet · 27/01/2020 20:46

@ThatUserNamesTakenTryAnother - not bullshit actually. She was a marvellous lady, she worked flat out, had a great system.
I always made sure the place was tidy so all she had to do was clean. She would hoover, dust, (yes, even under furniture) mop wooden floors in bedrooms, tiles in bathrooms & kitchen. And made the bathrooms sparkle. Hated using chemicals & thought be a thing or two.

MitziK · 27/01/2020 21:13

Her Oyster cost would be a minimum of three quid.

You aren't paying her enough, even cash in hand, for it to be worthwhile for her.

Original poster
Cookiecrumblepie · 27/01/2020 22:38

@MitziK if it wouldn’t be worthwhile then I assume she would just quit. She doesn’t have to come Smile

OP posts:
DecemberSnow · 27/01/2020 22:43

Our cleaner comes around 10am...
She arrived at 10.40 this week,
I don't mind if she is late / early..
Doesn't really matter....

Same as the day, if she cant come that day, she will come the day before or after, no biggy.... She always lets me know though....

EyUpDuck12 · 27/01/2020 22:46

I have a cleaning business. I do minimum 2 hour slots as otherwise it's not worth the travel costs and time. I'm not sure you could get a cleaner for an hour for these reasons.
Being a bit late is difficult to avoid for me (15 mins tops). Some clients want a fixed time slot (e.g. 3 hour clean) , others want everything done however long it takes. I accommodate both, and forgo any lunch break to claw back time between jobs, but am still a little bit late to the afternoon job sometimes.

TARSCOUT · 28/01/2020 07:40

Whynosnowyet, cash in hand refers to 'off the books/on the side 'etc. If it was a legit company issuing invoices there would be no need to refer to how payment was made, cash, cheque, bacs etc. Yes, am definitely judgy and happy to be so.

GEEpEe · 28/01/2020 07:43

Our cleaner is a single parent on not fantastic money doing her best. We really don't need our dusting done by 2pm and she comes and leaves via a key safe so it isn't a big deal. We make it easier for her by having set days but not fussing about the time.

GiveHerHellFromUs · 28/01/2020 07:46

If you need her at a specific time, just ask. Tell her you need better communication.

People saying their cleaner does their whole house in 2 hours must live alone and never touch anything.

Northernsoullover · 28/01/2020 07:57

@TARSCOUT I don't get much in the way of cash payments but the 50 per week I do get in cash isn't invoiced. If my client thinks she's paying me cash in hand she's mistaken. Its banked every week. I don't announce it to her. If HMRC ever dug its clearly referenced fgs.
I also have one client who has an hours booking. It is an utter ballache and prevents me from taking on any new clients who want 2 hours in that time slot. I would never take a one hour booking again.
I also have a lovely client for whom I work 3 hours. Some weeks I'm done in 2hr 40 and I asked for extra work. She tells me to leave when I'm done. I don't take the piss.

Babynamechangerr · 28/01/2020 07:59

Oh yes you have to leave a list - I find it easier yo have a list of stuff you want doing every week then every week spend 5 mins adding a few jobs like microwave etc.

The time is important if you are at home with kids as you time going out with them being there. I find my cleaver doesn't get a lot done if we're all there as the kids follow her round and then she goes into babysitting mode. So we go out, so I'd be annoyed if she came at different times as we're usually just out for the time she's there.

If I was at work again I wouldn't care so long as it was during my work hours, but it would irritate me more if I was wfh.

Tbh I think you've got more than one reason why it's not working out so I'd find another one and just start over with a list and stricter expectations.

FizzyPink · 28/01/2020 08:04

I feel for you OP. I’ve probably tried at least 7 cleaners over the years both independent and through an agency and the flakiness is shocking, they don’t appear to treat it like a real job. My mum has exactly the same issue with hers sometimes just not turning up at all (Christmas Eve!!)
I’m currently without one as the last was so unreliable so I’m not sure what the answer is

Whynosnowyet · 29/01/2020 10:41

Can't understand cleaners who don't want to actually clean!! Most of my customers I have had for 6 years +. Some 8/9!!
New customers via recommendation or Care. Com. Would be gutted if I thought I had complaints!

RubysRoo · 29/01/2020 12:16

There is no way you can clean a 4 bed house in 2 hours. You may be able to do some jobs but a 4 bed house to be vacuumed, swept, mopped, dusted, bathrooms done, kitchen done is unreasonable. I suppose it depends on what you want done. But there is no way you can do a thorough clean of a 4 bed house in 2 hours.

@Cookiecrumblepie I have two friends who own very professional cleaning companies and they always saw a minimum of an hour per bedroom, but say just like you, smaller places tend to get dirtier (traffic - using same space over and over again) so they say 2 hours for a 1 bed is the norm in the cleaning world but a 1 bed will likely sparkle a bit more than a 4 bed in 4 hours.

I think cleaning is a hard job physically. And so dependent on the job before not giving you a bigger list than usual. I'd not worry about the turn up time as long as within a reasonable window (12-1), but you could ask her to text you around 11 am and let you know what time she will be there. You could also ask for 24 hours cancellation except in exceptional circumstances - illness etc., but to let you know that day by 9 am. A few boundaries around cancelling is probably a good thing.

Wexone · 29/01/2020 12:49

I have a cleaner that come every two weeks, she texts me a few adys before to tell me what day she is coming. Normally arrives around half 9 afters she drops her kids at school and normally finishes around 2 . I trust her complelety and do not require her to start dead on half 9. I think two hours is enough for a one bed flat however to the people saying two hours for a 4 bed house 3 reception rooms etc is ridiculous. I am not there every time my cleaner is there but i have seen her work a few times and she never stops. I have 4 bedroom two baths living room dinning room and kitchen. She does a very good clean of every room, deep cleans the bathrooms, hoovers whole house and mops whole house. Bed sheets are not changed but are made properly. This takes a good 4 hours. When i walk in after she has been there i can tell the job is done.

JuanSheetIsPlenty · 29/01/2020 12:52

Cash in hand? Anyone working like this is cheating the system so you get what you pay for. Use a reputable company.

Your ignorance fell out. Cringe for you. Pick it up before anyone else sees it.

AFirst · 29/01/2020 12:58

She is neither reasonable nor unreasonable. It just depends what you agree with each other. She must work her full hours though.

Urkiddingright · 29/01/2020 13:11

2 hours to clean a one bedroom flat is taking the piss. She’s also taking the piss turning up late constantly. Sack her off and find a better one.

TARSCOUT · 29/01/2020 13:28

Sorry but I don't see how you can run a legitimate business without having an invoice system? How do you work out your tax, business expenses, tax relief? Do you not offset mileage against jobs, vehicle use etc. Never been checked up by HMRC myself but surely you would be expected to produce evidence of how you obtained your money to prove it isn't money laundering etc. Sorry if you feel my 'ignorance' is letting me down but I really dont think I am wrong in this one!

TARSCOUT · 29/01/2020 13:31

HMRC states:Sole trader invoices
If you’re a sole trader, the invoice must also include:
your name and any business name being usedan address where any legal documents can be delivered to you if you are using a business name..Maybe they're just ignorant too?

Amylox · 29/01/2020 14:05

Apparently cleaners being self employed means the first £5 of their wages goes onto expenses so only anything over that goes into their pocket. You're paying her under the minimum wage.

There's a big problem with the shadow industry of domestic workers being paid low wages, mainly by middle class clients. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Plus you sound hyperclean so 2 hrs is reasonable. You do realise it's not necessarily a good think to be hyperclean and in kids there is evidence it may be linked to allergies and asthma?

Amylox · 29/01/2020 14:08

Your ignorance fell out. Cringe for you. Pick it up before anyone else sees it.

If she puts it through company accounts it's fine. The amount of cleaners who will do that is negligible.

Original poster
Cookiecrumblepie · 29/01/2020 14:23

This lady runs her own business and she charges me. I have no idea how she structures her tax affairs, it’s her business and I’m not educated on tax matters.

OP posts:
JuanSheetIsPlenty · 29/01/2020 15:27

Apparently cleaners being self employed means the first £5 of their wages goes onto expenses so only anything over that goes into their pocket.

The first £5 of the week, the first £5 of the day, the first £5 from every client, or the first £5 out of every hour?

Hmm

Stop talking shite when you clearly haven’t the foggiest.

The amount of cleaners who will do that is negligible.

😂😂😂