Proof of infidelity

[Musereader]

Sister married a muslim man 13 years ago has 4 kids and has just found out he has a second wife since autumn last year. He is denying it and basically saying she has no proof. She did have but the phone it was on was taken by him so she does not anymore.

Ceremony was religious only. It was in a mosque and we know where. Though it is half the county away. Aibu to approch the mosque and ask if i can take a look at thier records to get a copy?

YANBU, I don’t know how this stands legally, however. It would be wise to seek qualified advice before doing anything.

YANBU getting involved if your sister has expressly asked you to

If she knows it to be true does she really need "proof". Does ow know he was already legally married?

Why does she want proof? To ensure a quicker divorce? Even with proof it may make little difference if he still wants to contest and makes things difficult. She can still divorce after 2 years without proof. She has the right to leave without proof. If she's in the UK it will make no difference to financial settlement.

I really can't see why a mosque would allow a third party to access private records not accessible to the public - wife or not.

Does your sister need the proof to get the marriage dissolved somehow in the religious sense? Like does she need to go to a Mosque or something and say my husband married another woman, I want the religious part of the marriage lifted? Because legally, religious only marriages are not recognised in law and he won't be done for bigamy and it won't have any bearing on a divorce settlement

On it's own it's not much but it is a picture of his character in divorce and custody proceedings. He is the kind of man who paints himself as a pillar of the community who is a very good person and proof of lying will go towards painting the abusive gaslighting side of him.

Ow apparently was at 4th childs akika helping with food and is very aware of my sister.

Why proof? He’s a dick and she should leave.

What happened to her phone? That is concerning.

Adultery has no impact on financial proceedings in divorce or Child Arrangements so you are wasting your time if that's only what you are going to use it for.

In Islam I believe men are permitted to marry more than one woman, without the first wife’s knowledge or permission. This second marriage will be religious only and have no legal standing.

I'd want the proof in black and white too in your sisters position. However, what exactly would it gain her? I'd only want it for proof should he deny it in the future and try and paint me out to be the cheat.

Custody, maintenance and divorce really don't have anything to do with him being a cheat. If morality came into things a lot of people wouldn't have access to their kids!

@tryalittletenderness

In Islam, men are allowed more than one wife, so long as all the wives are in agreement. He is also required to be able to provide for them, as equals.

Your sister may want to speak to an Imam to see where she stands re divorcing him. AFAIK, the process for dissolving a religious only marriage is fairly straightforward (no solicitors etc etc)

In the U.K. the registrars office one is the only legal one. The religious one (nikah I think it’s called) won’t be counted in the U.K. as a marriage.

I take it your sister is not Muslim and that she’s not had a religious ceremony? The Imam may not be inclined to talk to her as she is not a Muslim. My friend was in a similar situation and we couldn’t find out anything until the husband broke down under her continual pressure and admitted he’d returned home to India not to visit his mother but to marry the woman, as both the fathers wanted it.

Apparently my Christian friend was not good enough for the son as she wasn’t Muslim and it was just a paper marriage (registers office wedding) anyway so he should just divorce her and marry the good, pure Muslim woman ....

Do you and your sister know anything about the other woman? Could you go to her house and speak to her to hear the truth? She may not know that her husband is already married to your sister or thinks she approves of it.

It could even be a business deal between families to bring them closer together or something. Although I’d imagine it would involve sex at least one and that he would be expected to do his duty and give her children.

I think your sister may have to accept that her marriage is over as her husband is clearly not overly bothered about her thoughts, feelings or aspirations as his own are more important.

I am so sorry for your DSis.

If she knows it to be true then she needs to leave.

My sister has both a legal and islamic marriage she converted to islam when eldest was born. New wife is aware of my sister having attended 4th childs akika and has offered in the texts my sister saw but no longer has copies of to raise my sisters children.

My sister made him promise to not have any other wives when she married him 13 years ago but apparently he has been using it as a threat ever since when they have arguments claiming she didn't even need to know about it if he did it but he has gone and done it.

Although it might seem logical to try to divorce for unreasonable behaviour and adultury- I assume this is what you sister is trying to prove - he can still contest and drag it out. He may be more open to a less confrontational mutual consent divorce where he can continue to claim righteous man status? I get she wants to (rightfully) expose and punish him, but the aim here is the divorce (I assume) and getting it as painlessly and quickly as possible. Exposing and punishing could seriously muddy the waters and make it much more painful. He will fight back cos he's an egotistical twat.

His character will have no baring on financial settlements or custody proceedings. NONE! the only thing that would have a bearing on custody would be (provable) abuse of the children - abuse of the mother is not deemed relevant in the case of the children. He could be Jack the Ripper and it would be irrelevant in the custody issue unfortunately. I'm presuming you are in the UK and here financial settlement is unaffected by abuse, adultery, unreasonable behaviour etc and is seen as solely a fair split of assets regardless of other non-financial issues.

I think she needs to get manipulative rather than depending on legal system - he has married without her consent and that would be shameful in the community. Threaten to expose that unless he agrees to a quick and painless divorce. Get the local Imman onside, play the religious angle. Weep about the fact he has shamed her, shamed his children, shamed his community by breaking the tenets of Islam and secretly marrying again.

However, if he is a complete shite (and it sounds like he is) he may not care. He's broken his own religion's rules (agreement from 1st wife) already to get what he wanted so would he really care what his religious community thinks?

Did I read that correctly? The OW offered to raise your sister's children?

Is that in the hope that your sister disappears or just walks away.

Is your sister looking for proof to show her husband? Or for divorce proceedings?

If your sister is sure of what she knows, she can end the marriage. It doesn't sound like he will agree, so it may have to be 5 years of separation.

My advice would be to approach the mosque and sort this out amicably.
From my understanding if he marries a woman in the ' same ' country he must tell his first wife.

How awful

Hope she gets legal advice and divorces the piece of shit

She should talk to the Imam and explain the vow her husband made and tell him he’s trying to hide the marriage from her and that she is absolutely opposed. Explain she would not have married him if she hadn’t believed his vow. Maybe the Imam can annul it or help her get a Muslim divorce. She should also get copies of all financial documents and consult a lawyer. And make an exit plan.