To be worried about DD and think she is studying too much?

[januaryistoolong]

DD is in final year of university, always had good grades and been academic. We support and are so proud of her but we are not really an ‘academic’ family - none of the rest of us have achieved particularly good grades or gone to uni so we are not pushy if you see what I mean.

Yet she’s completely obsessed with excelling academically, and constantly says that if she doesn’t then everybody will think she’s a failure and be disappointed. Of course we reassure her it’s not true. It’s exam season now and she’s had a few assignments. Whilst she was home over christmas she was getting up at about 7 to start revising, and not stopping until about 10pm except for a few breaks and to have dinner with us. I spoke with her about not putting pressure on herself and got her to come on a few days out with me for breaks from it all, but ultimately she’s an adult and she just wanted to revise.

Now she’s gone back to uni and I’ve had a message from her best friend (who she lives with) saying she is also worrying about DD. She said DD has been going to the library when it opens at 8am and not leaving until it closes at 2am, then repeating this everyday. Also said she’s barely eating and is very emotional and tearful. I should add that DD has suffered from anxiety in the past.

The one person (other than DH) I have spoken to this about has said that this is just a normal part of uni, and that I wouldn’t understand as I didn’t go. I think that’s wrong but what do I do? She’s an adult. Sorry for rambling, I think I just needed to put everything down in words...

I’d be worried about her too. Can you drop in for a visit?

Yes that's too much. She's not getting enough sleep so won't be learning as well as if she gives her mind and body proper breaks, and it sounds as though she has an unhealthy level of anxiety about the exams.

Would be good if you could visit. Is there a tutor with a welfare/pastoral remit?
Does the university offer a counselling service?

Studying from 8 am until 2 am every day isn’t normal. She will be wearing herself out which is counterproductive and could negatively impact her performance. And of course it’s not a happy and balanced way to live. It sounds like she needs some help and support. If she were my DD I would go to see her and possibly ask the university about what counselling or mental health support it can provide.

Agree that regardless of the impact on her emotionally, it will be counterproductive as she won’t be getting enough sleep and breaks to be studying effectively.

Practically, will she go and speak to her tutor? Does her university offer any kind of study skills service that might run sessions on effective studying that might help her see that what she’s doing isn’t healthy or sustainable?

As a university lecturer, I would be worried about this. It is not and should not be a normal part of the university experience.

It is also not an effective way of learning, so not good from that viewpoint alone.

But more importantly, even if it did work, where is the point in getting a First if you wreck your health?- then you won't be able to use it anyway.

To me, it sounds like the anxiety is taking over and your dd should speak to her personal academic tutor about getting some support. This is not healthy.

Also a university tutor and this is too much and ultimately counter productive. The difficulty though is that you need your DD to see this and do something about it. The university and the Students Union should have a number of avenues for support but she needs to want to get help.

I mean I can't lie, 8am to 2am isn't much longer than what we all did when I went to uni and it was exam time (plus the all nighters through to 6am when it was dissertation time). Some people do need to revise a lot and I'm one of them, all of the recommended 'proper' revision techniques do nothing for me, only hardcore repetitive cramming right up to the last minute.

If this is her final year she will have been through exams before, is she usually like this around exam time? Does she relax more during the rest of the year or is it relentless? She's at the final hurdle and she's going to be stressed and anxious, you can't prevent that. Only you can say whether you think this is part of a wider anxiety problem or something that might solve itself once the pressure of the exams is gone. My final exams were the most stressful thing I ever did, nothing in the world of work has ever come close.

This sounds like my sister! Started from her gcses and went right through to her now doing masters. Also planning a phd 🤦🏻‍♀️ We are all very proud of her but she gets so stressed over it and never stops studying. If she misses a lecture for any reason she will phone us having a breakdown. She’s always had A*s and firsts etc but it never seems to be enough. She has had therapy and is slowly getting better. And what has helped the most is that she moved somewhere more expensive and had no choice but to get a job to keep up rent payments. Does she have a job too or is it entirely uni?

Those kind of hours are normal in the few weeks of finals maybe but not otherwise. Even then a lot of the ‘study’ time we did in the library in those stunts was actually spent chatting or on breaks, it’s really not possible to focus for that many hours.
I would go see her. She might crack long before she gets to finals.
If her friend is worried enough to contact you the. It must be serious.

8am and not leaving until it closes at 2am, then repeating this everyday

I used to do 9 am when library opened to it shutting around 10.30 pm - but stopped for quick meals. It was easier to go there or the department that try and revise at home.

That was partly the course the workload in early part of final year - there was couple of essays, a massive project based on field work and exams at christmas - by March/April it was just last few exams and people on my course suddenly had spare time.

People we lived with on different course often expressed concern and then surpise when we had time later on in year.

I've also pull all nighters - for the big project and the big master project - that was partly as needed access to equipment which was limited.

Yet she’s completely obsessed with excelling academically, and constantly says that if she doesn’t then everybody will think she’s a failure and be disappointed

^^ This is more concerning - but all I can suggest is keep talking to her and encourage her to get help if she needs it.

I think there’s a difference between pulling a few all-nighters pre-exams (and as Winged says, a lot of that really was for show and for being able to say you’d done it) and consistently pulling those hours day in day out for an extended period of time.

And yes, it’s the attitude of worrying about being thought a failure that is the bigger underlying worry.

I have never studied this hard or expected my students to study this hard. As a one-off when trying to finish a piece of work, fine although I would counsel the student to develop better time management skills even in that kind of case. Over a prolonged period of time? Never. It leaves less than six hours for sleep which is not enough to be rested and able to study effectively.

I was a perfectionist, straight A/First class student at university and I never studied anywhere near this hard.

I did think I was one bad mark (ie not a First) away from being a complete failure and that somehow that was the essence of me.

You're right to be worried, and when people get into this state they can't see the wood from the trees. As others say, dd needs to want to change her outlook and studying behaviour, and to do that she'll need to understand why it's important. Other people telling her that she's working too hard will fall on deaf ears.

I'd second what others say about a visit, or a phone call if that won't work. Followed by an email with sources of support and links to information about the importance of sleep in learning etc. It sounds like the best way in will be to explicitly agree with and support her ambition to excel and help her understand that she's not going about it in the best way.

Thank you all so much for your responses, reading them has really helped me to think about the situation.

DD’s last exam is tomorrow and she’s coming home for the weekend on Friday. Most of this stress does culminate around exam times naturally, but she does work incredibly hard all year round. That being said, to answer a PP, I do not remember her being near this level in previous years. Yes, it would be revising everyday, but not from the crack of dawn until the early hours of the morning. But as some of you have said, I suppose final year is intensely stressful.

To answer a PP, she did have a job up until before christmas which I personally thinked helped her to de stress even though she claimed it did the opposite and made her too busy for uni work (hence why she quit before christmas.) It was only a night or two a week as a waitress but at least it gave her something else to think about.

I plan to see how things go over the next week or two and if she is chilling out after this exam season. But she does have her dissertation to write and I’m guessing a few more assignments leading up to the summer exam period and I’d hate to see this behaviour continuing.

I agree that it is the obsessive fear of failure that is most worrying. Like you say thehorseandhisboy she thinks that anything less than a first will send her spiralling into failure. She is quite self conscious in terms of appearance etc and I think she believes that academics is all she’s got - which really isn’t the case! She’s outgoing in social situations, loves spending time with her friends and has a huge group of them both at uni and home. Hopefully she winds down over the next few weeks but with it getting closer to the end of her degree I’m worried that won’t be happening.

She has accessed the university counsellor service previously which she did find very helpful. The issue is like many of you have said - getting her to see the problem. When I bring it up and say she’s going way too hard and she needs to take a step back she sort of just laughs it off and says I’m worrying too much.

Gosh that was very long ... in short, thank you all

As she's comfortable with intellectual arguments, it might be worth sending her some links to academic pieces explaining why perfectionism is counter-productive - for example, [[https://theconversation.com/how-perfectionism-became-a-hidden-epidemic-among-young-people-89405.]]

I was genuinely quite surprised when I first came across an explanation that perfectionism isn't a good thing.

link fail - this article

University tutor here too

Among my students there appears to be a significant link between perfectionism and anxiety/other MH issues. I constantly talk to them about managing their workload so that they can manage stress (and the need for working all hours) when assessments are due. Also that breaks aid productivity & that no one does their best work without a break - hence me on MN now 😂

The other problem I have seen with such students is not submitting work on time if they are worried it’s not good enough - and hence getting marks capped 😢 if this is not already acknowledged in a study agreement.

That's great that she's coming home for the weekend.

Get her to read/watch YouTube Matthew Walker's 'Why we sleep'. There are some chapters that focus specifically on the importance of sleep in learning and memory. It's a real eye-opener, and very compelling.

Pacing herself is key in the third year. She's still got a few months until Finals, so she really doesn't want to burn out now.

There is quite a bit of research on why failure is the key to success. Not just in terms of building resilience and perseverance but also in terms of training your brain to work round problems, reprioritize, change goals, ask different questions, etc.