If TFL don't know the correct fare, how can passengers?

[goingoverground]

DS needs to make a daily commute from zone 2 to zone 4, 5 to 7 times a week for the next month, leaving in the morning during peak hours. There are 2 possible routes, one via zone 1, one avoiding zone 1 using the mysterious pink card reader that goes from zone 2 to zone 5 (by one station) and changing trains to back one stop into zone 4 on a different line.

The journey via zone 1 is much more expensive than the other route but the journey time is the same.

If you use the TFL single fare finder, you put in the start and end destination and it tells you how much a ticket costs for the different routes but there is no mention of zones. If you opt to buy a monthly travelcard, it asks you for your start and end zone (in his case 2 and 4) and gives you a price. There is no way to specify a route or that you interchange in zone 5 using the pink card reader.

DS (who has ASD) asked the ticket barrier attendant to confirm that if he is using the pink card reader and travelling from zone 2 to 4 via zone 5 (but not alighting), he doesn't need to get a zone 2-5 travel card. The attendant didn't know. DS has tried the TFL website, TFL customer services, made a special trip to an actual ticket office in a mainline station (the ticket office at his local station has closed and been converted to a Starbucks), Google and now resorted to the tried and tested solution of asking mum None of us can find an answer.

If he needs a zone 2-5 ticket, it's nearly £30 cheaper to buy single tickets every day (based on him travelling 7 days a week, which he won't most of the time) and he probably won't do enough extra journeys in a month to make it worthwhile. If he needs zone 2-4, it is cheaper to get a monthly travelcard than pay single fares. But not if he ends up getting a fine...

AIBU to think TFL ought to know how their fares work? And ask if any of you have done a similar commute and know the answer? Sorry, it's a bit long and complicated!

Have you tried the UK fail forum - they have a section for fares queries.

Ha ha UK fail, Freudian slip there . UK RAIL - here: www.railforums.co.uk/forums/fares-advice-policy.105/

If he's travelling into zone 5, he needs a ticket that covers zone 5, surely? Even though he's not leaving the station in zone 5.

It's exactly the same as when you travel through zone 1 so you need to have a ticket that covers zone 1. If I enter the train in zone 2, to get to destination in zone 2 that involves travelling through zone 1, my ticket needs to cover zone 1.

The pink readers are for routes where you could have arrived travelling via zone 1, and routes where you can avoid zone 1. So it shows the system that you've not gone into zone 1.

The caps and travel cards fare finder does state that you must enter all zones you will travel through. So yes, he needs to enter zone 2 start and zone 5 end. I imagine the touch system “knows” what routes were possible and he can only make that journey by passing through zone 5. And you say not alighting but I assume he changes trains at zone 5, and that’s where the pink reader is?

Jesus wept

How the hell are you people in the big smoke supposed to get around without a degree in geography and another one in advanced logic and statistics?!

I cannot possibly hope to answer your question. Clearly TFL are twats.

www.oyster-rail.org.uk/fares-guide/new-oyster-fare-finder/

This is a good website created by a rail enthusiast.

Thanks everyone and well spotted @MrsAmaro! DS is also dyslexic so sometimes misses things.

You would think TFL staff would know though He specifically told them the route and that there was an interchange in zone 5. It's not as if it was just one member of staff who didn't know the answer.

And yes, @BiscuitBarrels, you do indeed need a degree in logistics and geography to find the cheapest and quickest route. Back in the days before free tube travel for under 11's, there used to be a bizarre off-peak parent and child ticket that was cheaper than the adult fare that almost nobody knew about.

I used to do a similar thing - Zone 4 to Zone 2 but through Zone 1. (I could have done it without changing in Zone 1 but it weirdly added to my commute time)

Thankfully the Oyster cap kicked in for me. It worked out cheaper PAYG thank getting a monthly

Sorry forgot to add - if he is changing in Zone 5 and not physically leaving the station (so not tapping out) it won't add to the fare. He'll be charged for Zone 2 - 4.

He needs z2-5 if changing in z5, but in many cases the fares for z2-4 are the same as 2-5 or 2-6 (and thus 2-4 or 2-5 wouldn't be available).

He will need a zone 2-5 travelcard if he is travelling via zone 5.
Just like he would need a zone 1-4 travelcard if he is travelling via zone 1
Otherwise if a ticket inspector scans his card as he is in zone 5, he will get a penalty fare for not having a valid ticket.

It clearly says on the TfL website that You can use a Travelcard in the zones it's valid for. Make sure it covers all the zones you travel through.
tfl.gov.uk/fares/how-to-pay-and-where-to-buy-tickets-and-oyster/travelcards-and-group-tickets?intcmp=54706

You need to have all the zones you're travelling though whether you get out or not so 2,3,4 and 5.
HTH

I blame Fares Fair