Is it me being sensitive or the Orthodontist is on commission?

[OnceUponACat]

DD 14 has finally got an appt with the NHS Ortho (after a long waiting list and being switched from old practice to new one).

Old Ortho (who she saw for a few years but did not start treatment with) was matter of fact forward and what you expect from an nhs orthodontist: busy, knowledged, to the point.

New one was sooo nice. Told us her opinion on treatment which differed from previous and gave us private and NHS option. All good so far, except that I felt that she clearly was selling and pushing for the Invisalign option. I left Saying we need to discuss it but felt completely sold until the fog cleared a few days later and started thinking it through. I felt like I had been in one of those double glazing door to door hard sell.
I also got an email that just mentioned in details the private options plus lots of leaflet. The NHS one, for which we went there was not mentioned although I had said we had to think about it - think £0 or £5k, hardly a spur of the moment buy.

Email went back and forth asking for NHS options too.

Eventually we went back for a meeting as I was confused re the two treatments and ortho did not want to discuss by email. Wanted to double check that it wasn’t one glorious option and the other a Teenage nightmare and to observe if she really was biased or if it was in my head.
She clearly was, although done so subtly that it would be hard to prove. She told us to let her know by Jan when there would be a invisalign discount anyway.
We went back and told her we would go with the NHS anyway. As expected but hoping I was wrong her attitude changed and went from super nice to basic and even passive aggressive, not being that helpful and continuing to make the nhs treatment sound awful and also possibly not working even thought she never said that about the private option which should have the same reults, making it sound DD would come come out with a smile Worth of Ross from friends.

Sorry for the length, anyway I now have lost all trust, have a bad feeling as the treatment itself seemed to be used against the easy peasy lemon squeezy Invisalign. (Worth noting that her previous Ortho had a different easier NHS plan and would not ever discussprivate treatment during an NHS appt).

Now, shall I stick with her AIBU or get a second opinion AINBU?

If the latter how do you go about getting an NHS second opinion? We went the private route but they all seem to want to sell you Invisalign so not reliable in terms of regular braces.

All I want to know is whether the horrendous treatment she is putting her through is really needed.

Apologies for the awful length of such boring matter.

I wouldn't trust her either, I hate the hard sell of anything.

Can't advise on what to do next though, never had the experience. Bumping for you.

I have found similar.
My daughter was referred to an orthodontist who does both NHS and private work. He said that my daughters teeth qualified for NHS work as they were severe enough.
Great, I thought. only he then said he had run out of funding for NHS patients for the year and our only option was to pay privately.
He gave a long talk about how awful the NHS braces are how much better the private options are.

So far we haven’t done anything as unsurprisingly we haven’t got a few thousand pounds to spend on private treatment.
I can’t understand how you can be told your child qualifies for free NHS work but can’t have it.

That sounds awful - definitely get a second opinion. I hate It when people are pushy pushy like that

If it's funded by the NHS yes it's needed. The NHS doesn't fund unnecessary orthodontics. I have had two children go through the process, both are now in their retainers and are out the other side of it but we've done our share of fixed braces, wires and plates.

IMHO Invisalign isn't great. It might be able to straighten out teeth which are crooked, but can't deal with the other jaw and bite issues which lots of children have in addition to squinty teeth. The main advantage is cosmetic - you can't see that style of brace. In my experience with my teens that's not an issue as around 30% if not more of their friends all have braces too.

Of course the Ortho is going to try to sell you the private option as they can charge what they like rather than being constrained by NHS caps for treatment.

In your situation, I'd call another ortho and ask for an assessment on the NHS. They probably won't charge. They will take a look and advise how likely it is that the NHS will fund treatment. Nothing wrong with getting a second opinion.

New orthodontist. You need to trust someone 100%

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Do they have a different orthodontist at the same practise so you dont have to wait for another referal?
My son had a block brace fitted in december to correct his over bite, then gets a proper brace when this treatment done and we are on the NHS.

I would ask to book an appointment with someone else, they shouldnt be treating you that way

Extremely unethical OP.

I would definitely go second opinion.

I've had invisalign for wonky teeth mid 30s. It took 2 years and I've had great results but tbh I wouldn't trust a teenager to keep the trays in for 22 hours a day. That includes eating and cleaning time. I had to be very disciplined particularly in the beginning when I hated the feel of them in my mouth. You also need to be very careful about brushing after meals otherwise you have buildup of plaque under the trays.

Not saying your teen is irresponsible but I know I would have been a lot more lax at that age than now. Mon compliance means a much longer treatment time, more scans, more tweaks to the treatment plan and possibly more expense depending on your provider.

Downsides of train tracks are less freedom to eat what you want but you're pretty much guaranteed good results as long as the patient doesn't break their wires.

Ours did this but less heavy hand edly. The nhs funding runs in cycles and he was clear that private treatment would be identical but could start immediately whereas with NHS we had to wait for the next funding round and to get to the top of the list. Thankfully lots of people did fall for it and we were at the top of the list and starting nhs treatment within 3 months.
We did get one letter dealing solely with private options and then the nhs form came a little later. Shady, but I think a lot of dental / orthodontics practices have to operate that was on the basis of demand vs funding

@Tattooedmama how is your son doing with his blocks? We’re at month 3 now and have had significant movement but desperate to finish and get on with the main event!

I think you should contact the health board who monitors this service and discuss your experience. They should be able to advise you and they need to be informed that the orthodontist is using NHS appointments to actively discourage people from seeking NHS treatment and up sell their own private treatments.
Also, if your previous dentist had a care plan that you think would be better, then push for that.
If you have no faith in the orthodontist that you saw, then you absolutely need to make a complaint to the health board and ask for a second opinion.

Sounds unprofessional

Are you able to go back to your old orthodontist? I assume that as treatment begins you won’t need to visit the old practice as frequently, so hopefully you’re still able to visit if you’ve moved (etc)

What did the old orthodontist suggest compared to this one?

I had the hard sell from my orthodontist for Invisalign and unfortunately fell for it. Seven trays into a really inconvenient, painful and difficult treatment,he gave me trays that forced my mouth open that were impossible to tolerate with my TMJ (which, of course he knew about and had promised Invisalign would sort out). Massive con.

Ex-H did a 14 month treatment only to be told he needed a 14 month correction and now a few years later the teeth are moving back where they were before all this. Another massive con.

@AtillatheHun
Hes doing good but he needs alot of prompting to put them straight back in with eating, i can see a huge difference already and its only been around 6 weeks hes had them, were actually at the orthodontist today because they are starting to dig into his bottom gum.
I was pleasantly surprised he coped so well when he first had them in, after reading other teens experience i was dreding it but were so thankful he can get it sorted

Hows yours getting on after 3 months? Have they measured the difference?

My normal dentist is similar. Always trying to up-sell options. She was pushing hard for my to book appointments with a cranial osteopath who works there, what she didn’t admit was the osteopath is her husband! I did my research and found cranial osteopathy is quackery, absolutely no scientific basis. It’s the third time she pushed it. I was in the chair while she insisted I booked in a time slot - £85 a go.

I suspect a lot of dentists are the same and are supplementing their income. GPs could go the same way, especially if an appointment fee is ever introduced.

Oh and I had normal NHS orthodontics as a teen. I’d never have thought Invisalign appropriate for teens as so many have braces it is normal.

@Tattooedmama - 3mm at the first appointment! 2nd appointment next week- difference is visible and clear. Not sure how long they keep it after it’s in the “right” place to ensure it doesn’t wander back?

One way to look at this is that the end result you are heading for it to get DD's teeth aligned. However you do this is going to take about 2 years and is going to involve having clips glued to every tooth and wires attached to steer the teeth back into place and hold them there.

IMO, everything else is then about vanity and fashion. Do you (DD) not mind having a mouth full of shiny metal or are you ultra-sensitive about looks and want to try to hide the braces by having white coloured clips and wires. However much you pay, in two years time it will be done. TBH £0 sounds like a pretty good price.

@PineappleDanish i get that but there is no question that treatment is needed, it has been needed since she was 8, the issue here is that two NHS orthos differ in type of NHS treatment and that the one who Pushed for invisalign opted for the most horrid nhs version and all She talked about was the fabulousness of the invisalign compared with to the awfulness and possibly unsuccesful other one.

Thank you all.

So On the NHS Ortho 1 DD would need fixed braces only as no need to push jaw forward. Unfortunately did ortho has jo longer NHS contract.

Ortho2 22 DD with block and then fixed brace.

Obviously first option is better in terms of confort BUT that is not the point. I want the right treatment and I feel that the NHS twin block was put there to conterbalance the stress free invisalign.

I did ask about invisalign as I did not want to rule it out. I could afford it but wanted to make sure that it is the right treatment and the pro and cons. Online I got loads of pro and cons, like here, from her it was totally skewed oneway. Even DD noticed it.

I guess I have to call the board and discuss it. Bloody hell we have been waiting for ages for this and it is a nightmare.

I don’t mind being given the option and the info but trying to emotionally sell you something especially in front of your daughter is awful. And since we are NHS patient first and foremost it should not happen. I would understand if I went for a totally private consult (and even then the ethics...).

Anyway thank you all so much. I am not even sure why I am struggling. I felt gaslighted and emotionally blackmailed.

Oh gosh, we're going through this at the moment. DD has qualified for NHS treatment (serious issues) and either private or NHS starts immediately. The only difference is that NHS is silver train-tracks, and private is white. Oh, and the price: £3500.

Trouble is, because the problem is serious, she'll have these train-tracks for 2 years, right in the middle of her teens and is v self-conscious about her looks. We do have the money but why can't we just pay the cost differential for the two types of actual braces rather than having to have the whole thing 'private' when the treatment is otherwise identical??

PS: DD does not mind the NHS. We have discussed it. I would not kind paying it if a) was equal treatment and results b) was easier c) she would really struggle with the braces. But she isn’t! Allher friend have them. She is quite level headed and has experience other med conditions which she sailed through. Which makes me Even more mad that the ortho made it all “this is awful for a teenager” “this is grand”.

Wingardium ime the new metal braces are not as huge as the one we had. My DDdoesn’t mind them because all her friend have them BUT As I hated mine and was very self conscious I would be also in a psychological mess.

Question? Did they not try to sell you the invisalign for 4.5k?