To feel like I've failed DD if she doesn't pass 11+?

[Namechangearooney1]

She wants to have a go at the 11+ and has a tutor. She's bright and is doing ok but finds the maths hard. I've stressed that she doesn't have to take the exam and we're doing our absolute best to try not to make her feel under pressure (although all kids taking it are surely going to feel some kind of pressure).

But as much as I've always done extra work with her at home, I can't help comparing myself to other parents and feeling that throughout her school years, although I take a very active role in her education, I've not helped her as best I could. For example, I've always placed a big focus on reading and read to her from a small baby and as a result her reading/writing is great. But if I'd focused more on maths when she was younger, she would be better at it. And I feel like I've always got too involved with her homework and now, if she gets stuck, rather than sit and think about it a bit longer, she gets frustrated quickly and wants to give up. I have to really encourage her to spend more time rethinking the question til she works it out (and is then v pleased with herself). Im also not good at explaining things in a way she understands and can confuse her. I feel like there are other parents who have brought their kids up in such a way that they respond well to a bit of pushing, where as with DD, I can't really do that. One of my friends gets her kids to do an hour's extra work every day - and they do it happily because they've always done that from a young age and it's just the norm for them. As a result, they're all really, really clever and her eldest flew through the 11+.

I don't know...I just know that if she doesn't pass, I will absolutely not be disappointed in her but I will definitely feel that it's me that has let her down. Does that make any sense? I just want to feel I've helped give her as many opportunities as possible. And I know the 11+ is not the be all and end all, it's just it's the first big test she's faced.

It makes complete sense. I had one pass and the other fail. Neither were tutored and I felt completely responsible and that I had let the one who failed down. She went to a terrible school as a result.

She is at uni now, but it is seven years she won’t get back.

Oh god, that's exactly what im worried about

She can either do it or she can’t, and go be honest if she is struggling even with a tutor would it really be the right school for her? You can’t be responsible for everything in her life - you have helped her where possible and supported the schools teaching, you have done your bit

What are the alternative schools like, my DD 'failed' the 11+, so we had the disappointment of that, but she aced the SATs. Her score put her into the accelerated stream of her secondary school so I feel like she's got the next best option and she really loves her new school which is well regarded locally also.

The non-grammar schools are not that great which is adding to my worries.
Yes, I know what you mean @Foslady about doing my bit - I just feel like I could've done my bit better! I just want her to end up in a school where she thrives.

I agree with @Foslady

When you say 'not that great' do you mean poor Ofsteds, or do you just mean their headline GCSE results aren't as good as the selective Grammars?

I'm so glad I live in Hants with a truly comprehensive system.

But you can’t be on their backs all the time, we all parent differently. Do you beat yourself up because she doesn’t like a certain food? Do you think you should have cooked it in 13 different ways when she was weaning so she’d learn to love it? Of course not!
I bet she will always remember the fact you curled up with her and read. I bet you are a great mum at providing fun stuff for her to do. I bet she loves you unconditionally whether you made her learn her times tables from age 4 or not!
Please focus on the positive side of your parenting and stop feeling down about what you haven’t done.
Your dd will do well in life with great support from you whether she passes the 11+ or not.

but she might naturally just not be very good at maths. it isn't necessarily related to how much you have helped or haven't helped.

Look as a parent your primary job is to love your child/children. If she feels loved and secure at home you have done a great job. If she knows to work hard with school then that is a bonus as it is an important life skill. If she doesn't pass really it isn't the end of the world. Yes some schools are rubbish I do understand that (mine refused to even contemplate taking the 11+) but also remember a lot can change in a school in a short amount of time AND a school really is only as good as the teacher you get at the time. I was at a grammar school and plenty of our teachers were not good. I know some amazing teachers in rubbish schools. Some years have more behaviour problems than others but grammar schools can come with their own problems. Honestly if you can make her happy and secure and hard working then I am sure she will do well whereever she goes. Seriously.

Do you realise the kids who happily do an hour of work every day probably find it easy (i.e. already have high ability), rather than the extra work ‘making’ them bright?

My very able DC would do this and find it fun. My DC who has to work hard to keep up with the age related expectations would hate it and kick off.

It’s too easy to blame yourself for what you did or didn’t do. Many people do nothing extra and their child walks the 11+. Others tutor for two years and the child doesn’t get close.

You can only do your best. Practise the maths as much as you can, but don’t compare yourself or your DD to others. She sounds like she’s a bright girl, if she doesn’t pass it’s not a reflection on either of you.

also remember you can't compare grammar results with non grammar results. what you want to be looking at in the non grammar schools is how well the good students and average students do. They have to cater for everyone and some will still get good academic results, they just also have some who won't unlike the grammars.

some of the non grammar schools might stream for some subjects or have grammar streams so look into that too

I have two teenagers. One has just been offered a place to study maths on one of the most sought-after university courses in the UK. The other finds Maths a relentless slog and can't wait until they can drop it. They will hopefully scrape a good enough GCSE but no more than that.

Same family, same parenting approach, same schools.

You sound like you are doing what you reasonably can, and more than many parents. Just keep supporting as best you can.

They can either do it or not. Tutored kids sometimes struggle because when they get into the school they are unable to keep up.
I'd let her try without extra tuition and if she passes it's on normal merit not tutored to pass the test only to find she's incapable.
One of mine out of 3 would have passed but we don't have grammars round here, thank god.

You're doing a brilliant job, you sound interested and supportive unlike many parents

I don’t get this 11+ thing why do we still have grammar schools? They sound so divisive, labelling and separating people at such a young age. We don’t have grammar schools in my area ( north west) so it is totally alien to me and seems archaic.

OP, I know what you mean. My DD did the 11+ last year after 18 months of tutoring twice a week and being at a private school that puts a lot of work into preparing for it. She's a bright kid, we put zero pressure on her and school and tutors expected her to fly - but it all went to pot! She just had a bad day, for no particular reason.

I could have kicked myself and felt like I hadn't pushed her enough, or I'd downplayed the importance it too much. But it happens. There's nothing you can do to cover all eventualities. Other kids in her year did 5 or more hours of work each day through the summer hols or were so stressed out they started sleepwalking. I didn't want my DD to be in that state - that's not a healthy sort of parental 'help'.

My take on it was DD would either get in fairly easily or not go to Grammar at all. Because people seem to get so focused on the test they don't see past it - getting in is just the first step. The same pressure and high expectations don't drop away, they continue day after day. For some girls who are super competitive it's a great environment - for others it's unhealthy. It must be rotten for girls who were near the top of the class in primary to be at the bottom in grammar and to have to struggle to keep up because everyone is so bright and motivated.

So I'd say do encourage your DD but don't set your heart on it and don't be crushed if it doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world. If it isn't meant to be it isn't meant to be.

My DD quickly bounced back from not doing as well as hoped and wants to get a place at a nearby large, mixed academy with lots of sporting facilities. There's a private school at the end of our road which was originally our plan B but DD doesn't like it - says it's too small and sheltered and snobby - and I can't argue with her there! So we'll just see how things go.

But take heart from the fact that once you've done your bit - which you are, and not going madly over the top like some parents - it's pretty much out of your hands and in the lap of the gods. There are lots of pros to grammar school life, but also some cons - it's not the best option for lots of kids. Neither DH or I went to grammar, so DD doesn't equate it to personal success in later life. Good luck to your DD and wishing you well - try not to compare yourself to other parents and try to keep calm!

Thanks everyone. I was expecting to get a bit flamed here but your lovely comments have really helped.

Like a PP said, it's almost like I feel I have to cover every eventuality, which is ridiculous. And it's hard to get the balance right with pushing her. She doesn't respond well to ME pushing her (seems to be different with teachers) so I back off - but then wonder if I'm doing her a disservice by laying off too easily.

The PPs who don't have the 11+ - be grateful! I hate the whole thing, it skews the results of the schools - as obviously the top talent is creamed off for the grammars - and makes it so hard to make a properly informed choice.

And I do agree with those of you who say that passing is just the start and that the child needs to be prepared for the reality of grammar life. I think she'd have to pass comfortably for me to feel that a grammar was the right place for her. It's no good just scraping through then struggling for the next few years, is it?

I really resonate with your post OP. Striking the balance between encouraging your child to do their best and being too pushy is a fine line. Of course you want the best for her, but my attitude to the 11+ was always that DD would take it and the outcome would simply determine which school would suit her best - if she failed I wouldn't have wanted her struggling to keep up at a grammar and getting anxious and miserable anyway. Like you I always focused on reading and writing early on because I always felt that if you can nail that then all other subjects will fall into place - I never expected DD to be a maths whizz, me and her dad certainly aren't! Neither me or DH passed our 11+ though I did feel in my gut that DD was smarter than us, was very academic in her attitude and that grammar might suit her - but if she didn't get in then that was what was meant to be. We tried to keep things as unpressured as possible, however she didn't enjoy tutoring, the homework was immense even though the actual session was only one hour a week, and after 7 months I found her crying in her room and saying she wished she was dead! My God - I was horrified that she felt that way. I contacted the tutor immediately and cancelled all further sessions. No school or exam was worth my DD feeling that way. We chatted some more about it and she said she wouldn't mind dipping in and out of study books at home sometimes, and that's what we did - I got some practise books and depending on her mood she sometimes practised with those - sometimes she seemed to actually enjoy doing them, but we had no schedule, there was no pressure, she just used them when she felt like it. And when the 11+ came she passed - and she also passed the entrance exam for the school in question. But if she hadn't then we would have still been just as proud of her efforts and a different school would have been a better option for her. You have done great in terms of encouraging her already, don't feel like you haven't done enough - sometimes pushing them too much is actually harmful. At the end of the day her mental health is more important than passing the 11+, it really is, and it sounds like you have struck a good balance of keeping her motivated (for the most part - they all have off days and moments of 'I don't want to') without being too pushy and making her feel miserable. If she doesn't pass the 11+ then she would have struggled at Grammar and been anxious and miserable, and would no doubt still do brilliantly at another school.

I had friends who were tutored to pass the 11+ and they did. They then went to the local grammar and struggled, then had a miserable time being bottom all the time. I have one friend, who although reasonably intelligent, has never recovered her confidence after that experience.

Now we are parents and a friend has just had remove her DD from their grammar school for the same reason.

So I think that you need to consider this. If you are worried that she may not pass, do you think she would thrive in your grammar school if she did?

It's no good just scraping through then struggling for the next few years, is it?

Exactly.

I went to a selective girls' grammar school. Every intake had a big group from one particular school that had a huge focus on tutoring for the 11+. Some of that cohort struggled badly in every year group and quite a few left.

I wouldn't put my child in a school where they were likely to struggle and feel like a failure all the time.

She can either do it or she can’t, and go be honest if she is struggling even with a tutor would it really be the right school for her?

I always thought the 11+ was a test of potential, rather than a test of current knowledge / ability. That's how it was described way back in the day, when I did it, anyway.

I think that you are putting pressure on her
You are way too invested in this - tutors, fine. Reviewing every time you read to her instead of doing maths exercises, not fine (who has bedtime maths? No one)
She is probably aware of how important it is to you
Just relax.
Reassure her that if she passes AND she wants to go, she can
If she fails, no biggie, there ARE good non-grammar schools around
If she passes and she doesn't think its for her, that's fine too.
If she doesn't get in, just keep on with the private tutors. Not the end of the world

I think you are handling this well, supportive but not too pushy. I have three kids in three different secondry schools thanks to the grammar system in my area. My one child who went to grammar who got in without tutoring so is bright absolutely hates school, as although he is clever he says the pressure is relentless. The other girl loves her streamed single sex religious school, although has decided to be a agnostic lesbian and my third is in a school which is pretty poor but is managing. So even if she does pass the 11plus she might not like it....so don't stress too much or feel guilty I think you have the balance right of support but not too much pressure. They are still only little.

Thank you all, you are genuinely helping me feel more sane about the whole thing. I do feel that some sort of tutoring is necessary, unfortunately - whether that's done at home or by a tutor - because where we live, everyone tutors for it which really pushes up the pass mark. But I agree with the idea of not pushing her so that the result reflects more of her actual ability than what has been tutored into her - if that makes sense. But if she was ever distressed or upset like a PP said about their child, I would definitely stop, no question.