AIBU to want my employers to stop being dicks

[probablynotthere1]

I've worked at the same company for almost 5 years, small business with me and one other employee. I work 16h a week, but I work alone and never see my employers. Two bosses (husband&wife) both in their 60's, pretty naive about employment law, pensions etc.

I've been told they are closing the section of the business I work in in April. Assume ok fine - redundancy. Mention this to bosses and they seem shocked ("we have to give you lots of money?!") its £700 so substation but not loads. They earn £120k+ combined yearly.

Last week I got a call from boss1, they have checked through their security records for past 3 months and can see I have been consistently late. boss1 says it adds up to almost 8h all together. I apologise and ask to be sent the records - doesn't make it much better but it adds up to 4h total lateness in 3 months (varies 1-15mins a day, traffic is the cause) the other employee is similar, however apparently she has not been approached.

Boss1 says I have two options - either work a whole day for them for free to help close down the business, or I have to repay every instance of lateness in the past 5 years (says they will trawl the records) she also said if I chose to work the free day, they want to have a nice time and we need to be civil and have "some fun with it"

Now, the less time spent with these people the better imo. I just want to get it over with, get my redundancy pay and go so I am keen not to work the free day. Can they really enforce the "lateness charge" they are proposing? Sometimes I work through my lunches, sometimes I stay late, sometimes I come in early so I don't see that they can fairly calculate this - plus surely its not lawful.

Help, advice? Thanks

N.B Spoke to ACAS - they were useless and said its basically up to me.

Are you hourly paid? If so then many companies would dock pay for lateness.

You shouldn't be working through your lunches without permission. For one thing there is a legal minimum break time after working a certain amount of hours.

I owuld argue the coming in early. Did you keep a record at all? you could say that you came in early to make up for the lateness.

If you are salaried then it's possibly a bit more grey but I would certainly expect some kind of discipline for that level of lateness on such a consistent basis.

Dear bosses.

I will not be blackmailed into working for free. Of course, if you would like to collect for lateness that's fine. I too shall be collecting for the additional hours I have worked on the occasions I have come in early and stayed behind later.

Have you mentioned working through lunch & working late when needed to them since they suggested this free day?

Also why is your redundancy only £700 after 5 years?

I’d go with @tamponphobia ‘s wording.

If they can prove lateness via security footage/door access then you can prove earlyness and working lunches.

traffic is the cause

Strictly speaking you're leaving too late, traffic isn't the cause if it's happening that regularly. You're doing the same commute every day... the traffic varies but you need to set off earlier to get there on time unless you have a flexible working arrangement (which considering what you've described it doesn't sounds like you are). If you arrive 15 minutes early some days then you can always use that 15 minutes to do something else, or start work, your choice.

I can see points on both sides here but if it were me, unless I had proof I'd already made up the time then I'd probably just work the extra day and have done with it.

Personally, I’d just do it. I would make the point that you have come in early/worked extra hours plenty of times to compensate for any lateness, but for the sake of good will, work the unpaid day, be civil, collect your £700.

I understand the principle, but in the real world a bit of goodwill can go a long way. You may want a reference, they may know the next person you get an interview with, they may faff with your pay out from sheer spite if you push back.

It’s a day. Then you’re done. It’s less energy all round to just put it down to experience.

And yes, I agree with PP, in future jobs you shouldn’t just rock up 15 mins late due to traffic. You need to leave earlier to compensate, then if you get a good run, have a cuppa or start a bit early.

Consistent lateness is usually a disciplinary matter. You haven’t had anyone to oversee you so it’s not been an issue until now, but in a normal setting with a line manager this would make you look very slack...

So ask to see the security records showing that you stayed late to make up the time....

Or is there a reason why you dont want to suggest that?

Just explain to them that you’ve already made up the time.

I'd speak to an employment lawyer or union. Your company doesn't have to recognise unions but that doesn't stop you joining one. I used one to help my case against an unfair dress code being implemented in my work, I had one of my colleagues sit in the meetings but could the union could have come in to assist if needed.

£700 redundancy sounds paltry and I would not be making up hours for an unenforced "lateness policy".

Your redundancy would be more like 2k I'd have thought.

Sounds like they're being total wankers, self absorbed and manipulative in order to avoid giving you money. But I would suggest biting your tongue and getting through it - yes maybe express your surprise about it and raise the point of working lunches, staying late, basically the fact that you balance the working day and get the work done - but just do the extra day. Having a job 5 years without a positive reference is a bit of a worry, I imagine they're the type who wouldn't give a good reference unless you tow the line. It's shit and you can obviously vent and be angry but I'd avoid directing it at them

There is no security footage, they are going by the time the alarm is turned off in the mornings.

I worked out £700 on the government website, I work 16h a week, I've only been there 4 full years...

Statutory redundancy sounds about right. Lots of people expect it to be one months pay for every full year you've worked for the company but SRP is one week for every full year.

Personally if I felt they were trying to avoid their obligations I would be asking for the records for every single day since I had started and I would calculate every early start and every late finish. I assume you are the only one on your day in to unset and reset the alarm, otherwise how are they to know it is you who was late in?

I would just do the extra unpaid day. But be sure to remind your bosses that when a bridge is burned it is impassable both ways. They can not contact you in the future in relation to closing down your part of the business. A good reference is worth one day of work.

I was consistently late in my previous employment and would make up the time at lunch etc. If I didn’t see my employer I would have done the same!

Alarm times are not legitimate clocking in/signing on records. They can't implement a retrospective/retroactive (never know which one it is) lateness charge policy. Tell them to pay you your legally required redundancy but no way will you be adhering to that nonsense.

There is no security footage, they are going by the time the alarm is turned off in the mornings.

Wouldn't that show when you've come in early or left late (when presumably you turn an alarm on?)

Ask for full records to show days when you came in early or worked late, and get that knocked off from the total - if you can prove that you have been working through your lunch hour, add that in as well. If that leaves the balance in your favour, tell them that you will be leaving early on your final day to compensate.

I should also make the point that when I talked of docking wages due to lateness this is before the original wages were paid.

It is an ilegal for an employer to dock wages for a previous "debt" without it being stipulated in your contract and also your written agreement. Specifically your repayments cannot take you under the minimum wage. This means that any repayments have to be agreed in instalments.

I'd take advice as to whether they can go as far back as the last 5 years!

they are going by the time the alarm is turned off in the mornings.

Do you also turn on the alarm in the evenings?

Can you offer to start early (30 minutes early per day if you've added it up to 4 hours, would mean 8 days)?