To ask who benefits from HS2?

[Rosehip345]

And if you do benefit, how?

Well seeing as London basically funds the rest of the country, that seems only fair. He who pays the piper calls the tune and all that.

But that’s not right though is it? Surely the aim should be to invest in other areas of the UK so that they too can fund the country. It just seems a bit nonsensical (wrong word but hopefully you know what I mean) for everything to point to London in this country and for all the wealth to be created there. And HS2 doesn’t really address that, not when the infrastructure up here is crying out for investment.

Wasn't the original justification of the channel tunnel that there would be a high speed line to the continent from Glasgow so the whole country would benefit. Once it got to London the powers that be basically lost interest.

Well seeing as London basically funds the rest of the country, that seems only fair. He who pays the piper calls the tune and all that

🙄 only because of our dysfunctional economy and London-centric policy.

I'm interested in this. Broadly I am a supporter IF it helps benefit the north and Midlands. I also think that the economy will need a boost post Brexit and it will create jobs.

But the cost, boy... however I also think the horse has bolted and no one will pull out now, at least to Birmingham. Lots of work has started (I live near the route and can see it happening).

Please can someone clarify if London DOES subsidise the rest of the country? What? Really?

The figures in the local paper show ticket prices between b'ham and London of upwards of £300 return. I honestly can't imagine who would catch it. I travel to London frequently on expenses and I'd be told by my boss to get right back on the normal train for the sake of half an hour 🤷🏻‍♀️

Please can someone clarify if London DOES subsidise the rest of the country? What? Really?

It isn't just London, it would be all the little pockets of well paid jobs also.

Isn't there also an issue re having only a single track at key spots on the route to London and having a new train line WILL open up the route?

Whatever, a train line is better than a motorway, no?

"Please can someone clarify if London DOES subsidise the rest of the country? What? Really?"

The financial services are mostly based there, so that's their excuse for saying that. However we might want to start re-considering the nature of wealth - we might have to once Brexit goes through. Wealth, in the eyes of civilizations throughout history, including our own before the current madness, equated wealth to resources, not figures on a smooth-able wax tablet. How much food and water does London provide for itself again?

Surely financial services could be anywhere?

(Or anywhere else in the world, isn't that the govt are terrified of?)

I think anything that transport a bit quicker I’d to be encouraged and can only benefit the whole country.

I live in the North West and won't benefit from HS2. All that money spent for a slightly quicker journey between London and Birmingham If I get the train here it's a creaky 1970s bus carriage that hasn't been cleaned or maintained since it was first built. I'm very glad I'm not a regular commuter.

Of course, there are other ways of boosting capacity. Run longer trains, for example

That wouldn’t be a problem as far as platform length is concerned. The problem we currently have is that they put two coach trains on when we really need three coach trains, and the platforms are long enough. Trans Pennine Express and Northern Fail are an utter disgrace. But thank you for your explanation Leafyhouse

We only have one awful pacer train an hour and locals are currently petitioning Northern Rail for trains twice an hour. The main problem is that a lot of the route is single track.

Anyone using trains to and from London King's Cross, London Euston or through Stockport will benefit. These lines are congested and a small amount of disruption causes the service to fall apart. A massive amount of capacity will be unleashed when Intercity services move onto the new line which can be filled by commuter and freight trains.

Anyone concerned about global warming will benefit. HS2 will make journey times much more competitive with domestic air travel and will get people out of their cars. Oh, talking of environmental destruction, the railway takes up a fraction of the space of a motorway, carries more traffic than two of them, makes less noise, less pollution and wildlife are safer too.

The people of Birmingham are already benefitting. HSBC is just one company moving its headquarters to Birmingham because of HS2.

The journey times between several of Britain's biggest cities will be slashed. If you are travelling from Manchester to London, you will save an hour. Birmingham to Leeds will be halved too.

So, to the project's detractors, what do you suggest the alternative is? How will you solve the capacity crunch on the Southern WCML? To help you, I'll rule out a few things which won't work.
-Lengthening trains cannot really be done. Many trains on the WCML are already 11 or 12 coaches long, any longer and they won't fit in the platforms. The platforms themselves cannot be extended because there simply isn't enough space. Build a new railway from scratch on the other hand...
-Adding extra lines to the WCML will still result in vast expense and mass demolitions. At the end of which you still end up with a line wiggling about all over the place to satisfy the whims of Victorian landowners who didn't want a railway crossing their land.
-Double decker trains won't fit on the existing infrastructure without the astronomical cost of raising every single bridge and modifying the overhead wires. The GWML project is a clear example of how drawn out that can become. HS2 will be built to fit European vehicles which are much larger.

By the way, I'm writing this while travelling from North Wales to Prague. Can you guess which bits were High Speed Rail and which bits weren't? The UK is hardly any better off than a country which suffered from the ravages of communism. When HS2 opens I will just be able to jump onto a train at Crewe and whizz to London in double quick time. The Czech Republic, needless to say is planning its own High Speed network, so should we.

It will never deliver increased work and opportunities in the North. It is more likely to just mean more people commuting to London. The only people to benefit will be construction companies and financiers. There will probably be some non-exec directorships for helpful politicians too.

I appreciate that commuting from London to the Midlands will be but a few minutes quicker , but at the expense of rural communities, and a vast expanse of wildlife, and those whose homes will be taken away from them???

*commuting from London to the Midlands will be but a few minutes quicker .....
*
Currently quickest journey from London to Birmingham is 1 hour 20 mins every hour. HS2 will run a 45 min service with three trains an hour. Bit more than a few minutes quicker and more trains running

Waste of money. Massive destruction of ancient Woodlands, hedgerows, agricultural land, wildlife habitats etc. Already happening even though it has not been given go ahead yet. None of the areas affected are benefiting from a fast track ride. Improve the existing lines and stock.
If it must go ahead, I can't work out why a parallel track cannot run alongside existing one and they put fast trains on it.

Right now, commute times are driven by the speed of the line. Upgrade the lines and the only constraint is the speed of the train.
In the future it is possible that 500mph bullet trains could link Manchester and London in 30 minutes. Almost everywhere in the country could be commutable from anywhere else. We can't still be trundling around on Victorian railway lines in 50 years time.

The country needs massive infrastructure projects that have not been invested in for decades. Every time you delay, the cost goes up. At some point you have to bite the bullet.

The whole thing completely pisses me off: The insane cost, the 'necessary' destruction of homes and countryside and the apparent importance of making well-connected cities even more well-connected.

It's already quicker to get to London by train from Manchester than from where I live - half the distance away. If the money has to be used for transport, I'd like it to be on a much greater infrastructure which would increase mobility within and out of many more isolated places.

disquieted post Brexit, the cash simply won't be there to undertake the massive infrastructure projects you propose.

Nor will The Will.

I am a dyed in the wool Remainer; however, in the long term, the slapping that is coming our way actually might, in the long run, benefit us in realising we are a small, isolated island on the edge of a cold ocean and to learn to behave according.

H2S won't figure in that for at least a decade.

If a government is desperate enough to demonstrate its commitment to The Regions so pushes it through, regardless, all it will do is drive Birmingham house prices up.

The shareholders and employees of the companies that build it.

And also whatever franchise runs it. Last I heard the plan is HS2 and the WCML - so the fastest and second-fastest routes from London to Birmingham - are going to be the same franchise. If that stays, expect HS2 to be first class prices and the franchisee laughs all the way to the bank.

It'll be obsolete before the first train runs. Britain as a country is incompetent at infrastructure-building nowadays.

Part of the issue for people in London is the route out. Part of the reason the cost has spiralled is that they have to tunnel much further than they planned. The original plan would have disrupted road traffic for years including closing a massive junction (the Hanger Lane Gyratory)

In fact I'll be bold. Before the first train carries passengers on HS2, there will be an operational Hyperloop somewhere in the world. There will also be at least one journey of the same length as HS2 being done by an aircraft powered by renewable energy.

Things like that are the future. HS2 is 2000s technology.

everyone on the trains which are currently over crowded with the longer commuters on them. will free up capacity on the rest of the lines

I use the WCML on a regular basis. It’s actually one of the best services in the whole system! Only once or twice have I seen it overcrowded (eg another train cancelled).

The current trains in this line are fast and frequent and cheap if you book in advance.

Hs2 is a white elephant. Several of the highest paid public sector employees in the whole of the U.K. work on this project. The costs are massively disproportionate to the marginal potential benefits.

It doesn’t fit basic economic principles of demand and supply. No one’s out protesting shouting for faster train routes to London.

It’s the connections between the cities in the north that are needed.

Was just about to type a reply to that same comment then saw that Verily1 had made exactly the points that I wanted to. Well said.

The west coast mainline is outrageously expensive, but not at all overcrowded.