"If you were my child, I would have slapped you by now..." How would you feel about this?

[emsiewill]

My 2 dd's (10 and 8) are currently away in North Wales with my parents in law. As they are there for 2 weeks and my pil are getting on, my sil who lives nearby offered to have them for the weekend in the middle.

I didn't want her to feel obliged to look after them, but she said she was very happy to have them, it would be company for her 2 kids (9 and 3) and no trouble etc, etc.

When talking to dd1 the other day, she was in tears "I want to come home, please come and pick me up" because some of the other kids had been winding her up, something and nothing really, and she is rather volatile and easily riled. I tried to calm her down, and then spoke to sil who was embarrassed that this had happened on "her watch", reassured me it was something and nothing. Spoke to dd1 the next day, all fine.

Spoke to dd1 yesterday, there had been some sort of argument between her and sil's son, she had stormed up to her room, sil had tried to come in and talk to her, she didn't want her to, there had been some sort of tussle with dd1 holding the door shut, and sil trying to open it and then sil said the thing about slapping dd1.

I just don't know how I feel about this.

On the one hand, I have only heard the story from dd, and of course there are always 2 sides to any story.

I know sil does use smacking as a form of discipline, but I am surprised that she lost her rag enough to say something like that to someone else's child - which makes me think she must have been really angry, and that dd1 must have done something worse than she is telling me....

I get on well with sil; although our general views on life are very different, we always agree to differ without any bad feeling. I will be picking the girls up at the weekend, and staying with sil, I don't want this to be the elephant in the room, but I don't want to raise it with her as though I am accusing her of something terrible.

I suppose I am mostly upset to thing that dd1 behaved that badly in someone else's house - we have had lots of issues with her temper her (see threads ad infinitum going back to 2001), but she is always a model child elsewhere.

Thanks for reading this far, and your thoughts are welcome...

Spoke to the dds last night - dd1 said "I suppose Aunty X will be telling you all about how naughty I was when you stay with her on Sat". I told her that I had only heard her side of the story, and that everyone is entitled to tell their side of the story, and that Aunty X had been very good letting them stay, and taking them out etc, but I didn't make a big thing of it.

I tried to pump dd2 for more detail - she said that dd1 was not behaving like she does when she's at home and 'goes off on one', which has reassured me. Dd2 was not comfortable with talking too much about it though, so I didn't push her. Dd2 was more affronted about being made to wash the car and do the washing up (once) while staying there...of course I put her straight on that!

Am feeling less stressed about the whole thing today, thanks for the input and giving me some perspective.

I am lol at the idea that your SIL should be congratulated for her marvellous restraint in not hitting someone else's 10 year old!
I would speak to your dd about it and leave it at that but fwiw I don't think it is unusual for a child to get this upset when away from home for this length of time. it was probably somehting and nothing, as you say.

Am reporting back as promised...

So, went to sil house on Sat, dd1 had again asked me not to "cos you will be sitting there talking about me". I reiterated to her that her aunt had every right to tell me what had gone on.

Sil was fine about it - mil had asked her not to mention it to me ("don't rock the boat"), but sil rightly said that if it was her child, she would want to know what had gone on.

Firstly, sil was at pains to tell me that dd1 had been really helpful with her 3 year old, and how she had been really pleased with her behaviour for all of the rest of the visit. Also, she told me that she had been mindful of the fact that dd1 likes things to happen how they have been planned, so if she said they could do something, she made sure that it did happen - so she is very aware of what makes dd1 tick.

Although dd1 (and dd2 to be fair) said that sil had shouted at dd1, which is what had prompted the episode, sil said she didn't think she had. I guess that it had come over to the children like that, but it doesn't excuse dd1's behaviour - she ran upstairs, wouldn't let sil talk to her, and after a bit of back and forth with the door, she (according to sil) told sil to "shut up" which is when sil lost it a bit and shouted the famous phrase at dd1. She then left dd1 to it, dd1 was apparently stomping about and slamming doors etc.

I apologised to sil, she reassured me that she wasn't annoyed with me or dd1, just surprised really, as she knew that dd1 is always good when outside our house.

We agreed that it was not acceptable, I'm pretty sure she is expecting an apology from dd1, which I didn't push before we left, as dd1 was not in a mood to discuss it calmly, and to raise the whole thing again at that point would not have helped. I'm going to get both dds to write to sil and mil thanking them for having them, and I will get dd1 to put an apology in her letter.

I am fairly sure that the whole episode was brought on by tiredness (it happened at 10pm at the end of a very busy day) and homesickness (dd2 told me that dd1 had missed me a lot), but I know that dd1 realises that her behaviour was not acceptable.

Sorry if this is all a bit "she said this" and "she said that", but I did promise to report back.

I think that family is different from other, less connected people. Family has more of a vested interest in how your child turns out. I would be prob be slightly embarrassed, but more thankful that my child were being treated pretty much as one of the family by your sil. I would prob be quite cross with my child in your place, and want to find out more about what prompted this.

And personally I find nothing wrong with a fiery temperament- life would be boring if we were all (even-tempered) beige clones. Bit by bit your daughter will learn what is socially appropriate and what is not on her own account. If she wants to get on with people, she will learn of her accord to curb her temper (I speak from experience...).

Maybe talking her through what led up to the outburst might help her to see from everyone's else's point of view (but you prob are doing that already). She is young and there are many years left before she is out there on her own.

Your SIL sounds pretty good to me - we all make slip ups now and again with children - especially realtions. It is something I have actually WANTED to say to my nephew in the past. Maybe i will....

If anyone's child (sil or otherwise) told me to shut up, I would be furious. I would ask to have that child picked up immediately and wouldn't have them back to my house again until an apology was given by the child. I haven't read your other threads, so perhaps your child has sn or similar valid reasons for behaving that way, so I apologize in advance if that's the case. I feel very strongly about children's behavior towards adults (and other children for that matter) and never accept name calling of any sort or rude behavior like telling someone, especially an adult, to shut up. If you don't believe in spanking, there are plenty of other equally effective ways to discipline a child who behaves badly or rudely. I can understand if a parent does not feel as strongly as I do about that type of behavior, but it's not the type of child I would wish to have my children associate with (even if it's their cousins).

She didnt actually slap her, and was an empty threat. No real harm done imo.

gosh you are an example to us all!!
Sounds like ALL of you handled the situation so well and in such an adult manner

May take I take a leaf out of your book please!

I do smack my children sometimes but I would never say that to anyone else's child, ever even if i felt It. And believe me, I often think that other people's kids could do with a good smack. She was out of order.

Ok, this will be unpopular, but I really do feel that you don't come across as being on your dd's side.
Do you ever accept her viewpoint over someone else's?

According to dd1 and dd2, your sil set the whole thing off by shouting at dd1 and then it spiralled.

If anything, sil should apologise to dd1 for losing it. She is the adult, she should have had the control.
Your dd is only 10, she's been in tears over this and you're going to make her apologise to sil?

sofia, just wondering how old are your children and are they boys/girls

i remember saying things like 'shut up' to my mum at that age......a pre-teen girl thing i think!

Oh Angharad, you can't let children behave like that. Two wrongs don't make a right, do they? SIL's behaviour is not (or IMO should not be) under examination here. If you start a path of justifying or excusing bad behaviours, where will the child end up?

The OP's child behaved badly. She's going to apologise. Eventually. So that's how it will all end, and that's right, no?

Hurlyburly - I'm just thinking that sil knew that dd1 was a volatile child and easily riled and yet she shouted at her.
And then instead of letting her go off and calm down in her own time, followed her, tussled with the door and said that awful thing to her.
Perhaps sil's a bit of a control freak and just couldn't let it drop.

You say op's child behaved badly - agreed her behaviour was not ideal, but it came as a consequence of bad behaviour by the adult in charge of her.
This is a 10 year old kid away from home for 2 weeks and sil has volunteered to look after her.

We are all models to our children. If the op's child's behaviour is not dealt with calmly now, and a better example of behaviour modelled by the adults around her, what on earth is she going to be like when she hits the teenage years. Especially if her point of view is not given the same weight as others'.

My children are 4 and 6 and I would never accept or expect either of them to say shut up to an adult (or child). And although I was a rebellious teenager, I would never have dared to speak that way, ever, to my parents or any other adult. Or for that matter another child. But then again, my mother was the strictest mother around when I was growing up, and I think I'm probably the strictest mother around too. At least about certain things. Don't mind if my kids want to run around in bare feet and get dirty when it's play time. But I do care how they behave when interacting with others and I do care about table manners and homework. I have severe limitations on tv time (and subject matter), but dont' worry if my dd is obsessed with Disney princesses and the color pink (surely she'll grow out of it by the time she's 10...I hope).

Could it not be seen as a positive? I mean, maybe the dd in question will realise that her behaviour will not be tolerated by all in the same way as she expects?

Anghara, completely disagree with you. Don't think a 10 year old has earned the right to have her opinion given the same weight as mine. And if you are talking about the adults setting the example...where has the 10 year old learned that it's acceptable regardless of the circumstances to say shut up to someone.

my mother often tells my DC and me that they need a good hiding! I just ignore her of when she says "if they were mine I'd give them a good smack" I reply "Thank goodness they are not yours then" but then just carry on I dont let it bother me

agree with sofia and hurly totally unnaceptable way to behave in someone else's home and I think it will do her good to see how others feel about her behaviour.

She has gotten off lightly IMO. Clearly easier to let it go than incur her wrath. Which is wrong.

I think that your DD was wrong to tell your SIL to shut up, but am a bit at SofiaAmes for suggesting you should have picked her up immediately. That is completely out of proportion to the "crime". She did not say, F** off, you stupid bitch.

It sounds to me that the OP and her SIL have dealt with this in a mature and reasoned manner and it has shown DD that her behaviour is unacceptable. You are lucky to have such a nice SIL who respects your decisions.

OK, seems to be a difference of opinions here (what, on mumsnet!?! )

SofiaAmes the phrase "shut up" is obviously one that you hate, and is on your list of 'unacceptables'. I don't like it myself, and do tell my dds not to use it, but I wouldn't react quite as strongly as you. Apart from anything else, it was 10pm, and not the time to be demanding the removal of a child - not to mention the fact that I was 200 miles away! But obviously my sil was not happy to be spoken to like that - and for that I don't blame her.

NotanOtter I'm not sure whether you were being sarcastic, if not, well thanks, I tried my best...

AngharadGH if you read my post again, I said that dd1&2 said that sil did shout, she said she didn't, "I guess it came over to the dds like that" ie whether or not she did, that's how they felt about it. I wasn't there, I don't know what happened. I didn't say to either of them that I didn't believe them. I often do accept dd1's version of events actually, as she is so obsessed with detail and very pedantic - she is usually a very reliable witness. However, in this situation it wouldn't have helped to "take sides"

And of course I'm going to make dd1 apologise. Sil had looked after both dds, taken them for days out, fed them, and was rewarded by dd1 telling her to shut up - that is no way acceptable in my book.

ConnorTraceptive "Clearly easier to let it go than incur her wrath". Well, yes, at that moment there was no point in stirring her up again - she was not in the frame of mind to talk it over calmly. I know I'm often on here asking for ideas on dealing with my dd, but I do know her well enough to know when talking is going to have no good effect.

PHEW! Sorry once again for lengthy post...

well that shut you all up!

Oh, and what I forgot to report back was that sil said to me "I was thinking that this situation is probably the sort of thing I could discuss with people on mumsnet, if I was into it like you"

thank goodness she isn't...

Hi just jumping in with my own two pence worth here. I can understand why you are worried about your dd's behaviour and about your SIL's response, but I think that it is an important lesson for children to learn that their behaviour will illicit different responses from different people, and at least this situation arose with a family member who cares for her and who didn't resort to slapping her despite being angered by her behaviour.

Your dd knows that you disapprove when her behaviour disintegrates and she knows what your response will be - as she gets older and more independant she will inevitably encounter people who will react to her behaviour (good or bad) in a way that you are unable to entirely protect her from.

I wonder if it might be a good idea to say something like the following to dd, "I am sorry that you feel that auntie "sil" spoke to you in a way that is inappropriate, but you were at her house where her rules apply and I am not in a position to argue with her over the rules that she has, and the behaviour that she expects from visitors in her home"

That way you are not saying that you don't believe dd, but you are encouraging her to think about how she behaves in different situations.