Road wars. WiBU

[Ceebeegee]

Hopefully my diagram uploads.

I was in a flow of traffic at traffic lights, when we turned green we set off. Further up the road ahead of me, a car was trying to turn right but was blocked from doing so because traffic on the other side of the road (now on a red light) had blocked their right turn. I didn't see this at the point I went through the green light. I had to come to a stop in the middle of the traffic light. When the other side then turned green, they couldn't move because I was in the way.

Cue lots of other drivers shouting and gesturing at me, I understand I was blocking the way but it wasn't deliberate /intentional and I couldn't have known the flow of traffic would stop,so couldn't have done anything about it.
I blamed the driver further ahead from blocking the road for the right turner. They blamed me. Is it just one of things where no one is really to blame?
Or AIBU? Is there a part of the highway code I need to brush up on? Should traffic lights be treated like box junctions and you shouldn't enter until your exit is clear?

The person who blocked the right hand turn was in the wrong IMO. You can mitigate that problem because you can see in advance there's a turning. Coming down from your direction you can't see what's ahead or what my block you.

I’m not sure if the Highway Code says so, but common sense says you don’t enter traffic lights unless your exit is clear.

I would have blamed you too, I’m afraid.

After re-reading I see the traffic suddenly stopped. That changes my view slightly. As you say, you weren’t to know that would happen.

50-50 on this one. The person blocking was not to blame, but the blockers should have left the side streets clear.

Could you see the other end of the traffic lights? Quite often near us you can't so wouldn't be able to tell if the way was clear.

I think blocking the turn person is slightly more in the wrong.

Person blocking the right turn is BU. YWNBU but if I was held up by you in this particular instance I would have thought you'd come through a red and we're blocking my way, as I wouldn't have known either.

Ah well. Chuck it in the 'fuck it' bucket.

If people didn't block side roads when they are stuck in traffic this would not happen.

Recently we've had two lots of long-term roadworks in our area and it is a complete nightmare. You feel trapped in your house because you can't get out of the road because someone's always stopped across the end of it.

Not your fault OP and it's no good people hooting at you, you can't change it.

Person(s) blocking the side road in the wrong. Even if you could have seen to the end of traffic light section when you entered it, how on earth could you know the road would be blocked when you got to the end?

Both wrong - I never move through traffic lights unless there is a cars space in front - you can see if traffic is moving or not - it's not hard!

Both of you created problems with the flow of traffic - I'd have been pissed off as well

You don't go through lights if you are going to be blocking traffic/ your exit isn't clear. I don't think there's anything in the highway code about blocking access to side streets if there are no road markings. So technically your fault.

Do you live near me? We have temporary lights in the village and all the passers through keep blocking junctions like this because they don't think of the locals who are trying to go about their normal day; they just see what looks like pointless side roads that don't affect their journey. The person in the other queue blocking the person turning right was to blame.

YABU and you were in the wrong. You shouldn’t enter traffic lights unless you can exit.

Rule 151.
In slow-moving traffic.
You should...
...allow access into and from side roads, as blocking these will add to congestion

Do people really not pull across every side road they pass in heavy traffic? Around here that would leave more gaps than not on busy commuter roads. Sure, don't be a dick and let someone in once they're there, but I wouldn't leave the turn into a road clear unless I knew for sure it was busy or there was a yellow box.

Huh. Cross post. Literally never seen it.

Person blocking the turning is in the wrong imo. Even if this happens there should be enough space cars to move forward/reverse a bit to allow them through. They must have all been squeezed up to the bumpers.

*space between cars

From your diagram it looks like roadworks and the road is reduced to a single lane with traffic control - so my comments are based on that.

Not your fault, if everyone waited until the exit was clear before going through the lights then you would have the stupid case of one car at a time. So those they say you shouldn't go through unless you can see the exit will be clear are probably thinking of a regular traffic light controlled junction not roadworks, which is something I would agree with.

When you entered the lights they were green, the lights should be timed so that if you enter on green the other end will not turn green until you have had reasonable time to pass through (otherwise we'd be meeting people in the middle). You did nothing wrong, the person who blocked the junction preventing the right turner is in the wrong, highway code says in a queue do not block junctions.

Checked highway code - rule 151 says you should not. Law 176 re traffic light access says must not.

Is it a road work traffic lights? Is that why it is such a long traffic light section?

Person blocking the side road is wrong - you should always leave side roads clear when you stop for lights.

You're also wrong because if you can see the car in front of you at a light is going to cause you to be in the cross traffic if it suddenly changes - you should stay behind the stop line even if your light is still green.

Frankly i prefer the yellow hatching - you're not allowed to stop on that and it's really useful to see if you should move or not at a traffic light.

The roadworks and junction look like the ones near my house. You couldn't possibly have known that the traffic ahead was going to stop like that. The person blocking the turning was in the wrong.

I'm assuming the long stretch between traffic lights is due to roadworks or a bridge or narrow road. I think you were just unlucky.
You've drawn 6 cars travelling in your direction. If you all went through the traffic lights together then you had no way of knowing that the car ahead of you would be blocked from making a right turn, causing a queue to form and you to be blocking the road. If the car was already stopped waiting to make a right turn then its more of a timing thing - when did you reasonably notice the road ahead was blocked? But I don't think that's what happened.
I do think people should treat side roads with more courtesy. Its possible that traffic knowingly blocked the roads because they didn't want additional traffic to join their own queue - I see this a lot near me.
One you're in this sort of situation tempers flare and people jump to conclusions about who is to blame, and just want to vent.
I hope you can put this behind you.

Both of you were wrong. The driver ahead should have left the side road clear for right turners. You shouldn't have entered the middle of the junction whilst there was no clear exit, because you have no guarantee that the traffic in front will clear in time before the lights change - as evidenced by what happened this time.

I usually pull forward slightly but make sure I hang back enough to allow cars to turn in front of me if needed, and make sure I'm not blocking any other entrance/exits to the junction. Then if the lights change it doesn't matter as you aren't causing any congestion.

What would it matter if there were gaps in commuter traffic because people were leaving space for side roads? Surely it’s more important that traffic flows freely than having as many cars as possible lined up nose to tail leading to delays like the one described?

Yep, both in the wrong. The highway code says you can go on a green light if the way ahead is clear.

For you to come to a stop in the middle of the traffic lights the cars in front must have been braking - otherwise you'd have had at least a car's length to get into. So if they're braking and you go ahead anyway you don't know the way is clear.

So really you did exactly what the person who blocked the car turning right did - you pulled up to the car in front even though they were obviously stopping for some reason.

I imagine the person blocking the entrance into the side road was also getting a few comments so you weren't alone.

As for the poster who said they'd never seen a gap left for a side road - let's just hope a fire engine or ambulance wasn't trying to get that turn. That's why you leave the side roads free - quite apart from the people who actually just want to get in and out of them.