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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To insist on an apology

50 replies

80skid · 16/01/2020 10:03

This morning, I slept in later than I usually do, in no small part due to the distinct lack of sleep from being up with children every night for the last couple of weeks. I had a showery, then told eldest to get straight in shower as DH also needed a shower but was making breakfast. I told eldest 3 times to get in the shower (one bathroom - we have to maximise bathroom usage and if it's empty, someone needs to get in!). When I was dressed, I found eldest sitting eating his breakfast.....I asked him why he wasn't in the shower.
Many apologies for the tedious tale of woe, but the upshot is that DH exploded with rage, saying I had been rude to him. (I hadn't), he got up an hour late (not my fault) had lots of work to (wow), that someone had ruined tomorrow by demanding his time (again nothing to do with me). The upshot was lots of shouting and him screaming at me to fuck off, slamming doors and banging things about. All while our 3 children were sitting eating their breakfast.
In all honesty, I don't care about the shower shenanigans. I do not accept being yelled at like that at all, but in front of our young children and before school is completely unacceptable. When we have argued in the past, it's generally involved a bit of sulking afterwards but never any acknowledgement of wrong doing or apology. I need my kids to see that a) it is not ok to behave like this, that b) you need to make a stand if someone treats you like this and c) you must own your mistakes and apologise when in the wrong.
This is all great in theory, but I really don't rate my chances of him apologising. We've been together almost 20 years and there has never once been one. His parents have a completely dysfunctional relationship (dad a narcissist and bully) do he has grown up seeing his mum treated like this. He is better than this, really he is, but there's a big part of me that thinks if I let this go, I am setting a precedent I don't want to.
We do have an otherwise happy marriage, so maybe I should let this go for the greater good?

OP posts:
dontgobaconmyheart · 16/01/2020 11:48

A forced apology (not that you will get one) doesn't change the fact that he was abusive OP. You say you have no idea why he would behave like this but at the same time are saying that he grew up in an unpleasant environment, clearly has emotional issues and can't work on or discuss his feelings in a healthy (or respectful) manner, obviously has form for doing what he likes and never apologising and generally sounds like hard work.

You shouldn't actually have to put up with any of the above , and he isn't 'better than that'- he is exactly what his behaviour days he is, he chooses how he behaves. He also chooses what he does about it, and it is you on here trying to work out why he does it so you can help him Confused. I doubt he is anywhere desperately working out how to beca better husband or a decent person, or worrying about how alarming it is that he is at home swearing and banging doors with small DC at home, all because he doesn't feel he should have to take responsibility like an adult.

tolerable · 16/01/2020 11:49

yabu . to yourself! honestly. "insisting"on an apology is ridiculous. People treat you how you let them. Swap peacekeeping for hell raising. bear in mind you can not change anyone else(regardless of how much you want then to) Of course you deserve an apology regardless of who,what,why-he yelled at you.THATS the big unacceptable. you gotta decide what you do with it. stay strong.x

NearlyGranny · 16/01/2020 11:56

80skid, I'm going to be a bit radical here and suggest it's not really an apology you want and should insist on. After all, if he mutters a surly "Sorry if you got upset," how much further forward are you, really? That won't stop it happening again.

I think what you want - and deserve - is more like a change in his attitude and behaviour.

Skip the apology stage, choose a quiet moment, tell him you have something important to say, then tell him calmly and clearly that the way he spoke and acted this morning was not OK. Tell him how you felt (not how he 'made' you feel) and use 'I' not 'you' at the beginning of sentences so it's clear you're sharing, not accusing.

For example, 'I felt intimidated by the banging and crashing. I was frightened by the shouting. My heart was racing. I felt as if I needed to run to a safer place but I couldn't because the children were there. I was worried that the children would be frightened and go to school upset. I was puzzled at the way all that rage seemed to come from nowhere." Tell him what your thoughts and reactions were. He can hardly tell you you didn't feel what you felt!

Then tell him he needs to take steps to make certain this never occurs again. If there's something dreadful going on that he's keeping from you, you need to be told. Someone who promised to love and cherish you, someone whose children you bore, someone who wants the best for you and the children simply doesn't terrify everyone in the family like that!

Ask him what he would think and do if he witnessed an enraged stranger screaming at you or one of his children in a public space. Would that be fine with him, or would he immediately step in to protect and defend you?

Tell him he needs to address whatever is causing him to behave like that (it isn't you).

Tell him you need to see that change beginning right away and he needs to seek help if he fears he can't change (not from you!) and make a permanent improvement. If he asks where, you could suggest he starts with a visit to his GP who is the gatekeeper to lots of professionals, but this is his issue to deal with, not yours.

He might have scared himself!

Bottom line is he needs to know you aren't prepared to tolerate this behaviour and don't care to expose yourself and the children to any repetition.

From where you stand, whatever his problem is, however much you love him, what happened is unacceptable. I suspect he already knows that, though.

It's just a few ideas. You know what you want, so do try to make it clear to him.

Good luck. You and the children deserve so much better than this.

Changeembrace · 16/01/2020 11:58

* His parents have a completely dysfunctional relationship (dad a narcissist and bully) do he has grown up seeing his mum treated like this. *

Exactly how your children will be describing their childhood

messolini9 · 16/01/2020 12:09

If things are generally ok, I’d expect he’ll apologise anyway.

He hasn't managed an apology once in 20 years @PurpleDaisies - what's different about this time, that he's going to start now?

messolini9 · 16/01/2020 12:15

Unfortunately he doesn't do "talking". He does having his say then withdrawing. If I try to talk, that's me having a go, nagging or starting a fight.
Ah, the double standard & never being wrong of the Angry & Controlling Man - www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that.pdf

There's a distinct lack of logic and consistency
Which is a common factor of Cluster-B type personality disorders.
Interesting that DH's dad is a narcissist & bully, huh?
DH is manifesting his father's behaviours. Please read the Lundy Bancroft book & start getting yourself better informed about the dynamics between you.

Unless you can get through to him that his anger & need to be always in the right are going to threaten his marriage to you, nothing is going to change.

MulticolourMophead · 16/01/2020 12:18

OP, if you want to minimise stress, I'd start by getting rid of this bloke. You are walking on eggshells and that's no way to live. He may be nice some of the time, but that doesn't justify the shouting, etc, at you.

I left mine after 3 decades, its doable.

TorkTorkBam · 16/01/2020 12:31

Unfortunately he doesn't do "talking". He does having his say then withdrawing. If I try to talk, that's me having a go, nagging or starting a fight.

Seems like in your mind his wish is your command.

He could say it will be sunny all day and you will think to yourself actually I think it might rain but then leave your coat and umbrella at home because you don't want the argument, it never occurring to you to ignore the noises coming out of his face and just take your coat and umbrella giving zero fucks about his opinion or shouty shouty.

Biscuitsdisappear · 16/01/2020 12:32

Why don't you all shower the night before and remove the problem?

messolini9 · 16/01/2020 12:33

@NearlyGranny, your post nearly made me weep, because everything you wrote is so reasonable, clear, fair & assertive.

However ... He can hardly tell you you didn't feel what you felt!
This is the place where "reasonable" breaks down.

For the Angry & Controlling Man, not only do his wife's feelings not matter, but only HE actually knows what they are, & only HE is qualified to have an opinion.
The A&C man will, straight-faced, trot out gems like
"I know you better than you know yourself!"
"You are just saying that to make yourself feel better"
"You were being a bitch about the shower to wind me up"

He will constantly assign & misattribute motivations that do not exisit in his wife, but that he needs her to believe, so that everything can continue being her fault, & he can remain in the right - unable to control his behaviours & temper because, guess what, it's his wife's fault.

Eventually the misattribution reaches the point of
"Now look what you made me do"
"If you weren't so flirtatious I would have to get so jealous & angry"
"If you didn't make me so angry, I wouldn't have to hit you"

OP - just to be really clear here - your DH was 100% unreasonable, & it is 100% unacceptable for him to never own his behaviour (20 years of no apology) & 100% not right for you to have to live your life in the role of "peacekeeper".

Read the Lundy Bancroft book - please.
DH's outburst was abusive to you & the children - do not minimise that.

WildChristmas · 16/01/2020 12:35

Don’t focus on the shower issue or his work or any reasons.

His anger and swearing at you is the issue. It’s totally not on at all and in front of the kids is like abusing them too. He’s also teaching your son that he can shout at women. Not good!

If it is a one off, then it’s still damaging. People remember these things, kids do, it changes the dynamic at all other times. He has to understand that. He needs to acknowledge and take action.

I’d really really draw a line on this. If he needs help, fine, he can also sort that, but no one is to be abused and you need to be very definite. Tell him next time he does it you will call the police. No joke.

ChangeInTime · 16/01/2020 12:37

An apology? I'd want a divorce. He's abusive and I don't see it getting any better. Only worse.

messolini9 · 16/01/2020 12:37

Why don't you all shower the night before and remove the problem?

Because the problem is not the shower, as OP will realise if she changes the shower rota.
DH will soon find something else to explode about.

The problem is not the shower. The problem is the DH.

TorkTorkBam · 16/01/2020 12:44

Teen boy is fixing to stand up to angry dad. Trying to kick off a fight but mum is being the human shield. Nice boys want to protect their mums from angry men.

80skid · 16/01/2020 12:49

Thank you everyone who has taken the time to reply. Lots of food for thought there. I have lost a lot of respect for his mum over the years for allowing FiL to treat her outrageously badly, then the quiet "you know what he's like" to justify it. She's of the opinion that in marrying him, she made an irreversible decision and has to tolerate him, no matter how cruel or embarrassing, and sadly, no matter how alienated her damaged adult children become.
I didn't sign up for that. I don't think this is the end of our marriage, but I am prepared to end it if it damages me or our children.

OP posts:
Vanhi · 16/01/2020 12:51

I am very much the peace keeper in this house but I've kind of had enough of letting being spoken to like shit go in the quest for household harmony

Another one saying a house shouldn't need a peacekeeper. It does sound as if he is copying his father. Not apologising, sulking and now this massive outburst. He really isn't nice OP. He might have his seemingly nice moments when he's getting his own way but he doesn't sound kind and decent. I know it's a lot to take in, but please do start seeing his behaviour in a different way. You are right though - you shouldn't have to put up with this.

WildChristmas · 16/01/2020 12:58

I know you might think it’s OTT, but it’s worth a call to women’s aid. Just to chat.

It’s them that advised me to say to Ex if he started to shout again that I would call the police. They said to not engage at all in the content, to tell him to stop. I’d never actually considered that before. They said if he was status driven and concerned about appearances that saying you are going to call the police can be very effective. And that if he didn’t stop to call the police and take the children out of the house.

Straycatstrut · 16/01/2020 13:15

How old is your DS?

I'd stop giving them orders. Not that I think you're in the wrong here! because your DH totally over reacted. I've just found it helps to keep "tensions" down. Let them make their own mistakes. Let your DS miss out on a shower and feel grubby. That's on him.

My eldest is 7 and I remind him to do something once now and that's it. I've realised if that I keep asking repeatedly he gets extremely angry. Like totally flies off the hook. For example he forgot to change his school reading book for 2 weeks. 10 days in a row he carried the folder in and brought it home unchanged. Every time I saw it was the same one I'd say "Oh DS! I reminded you twice this morning!" and he'd stamp his feet and practically scream at me. I said to him "Right it's your responsibility, I will remind you once and then it's up to you" next day I said nothing, and it was changed.

We have enough on our plates without having to remind people 3,4, 5 times to do something that should be completely their responsibility.

Your DH does sound like he's extra stressed at the moment. I think he's going to continue to take this out on you unless you tackle the main issue. I think you both need other people (friends, family) to vent (nicely!) at in the mean time!

billy1966 · 16/01/2020 20:41

@WildChristmas

Interesting advice there, that could indeed be very effective.

WildChristmas · 17/01/2020 00:39

@billy1966 it shocked me I must admit. Not sure if they say this to everyone so OP had better talk to them herself. I never thought of shouting as being in any way criminal, or worth police time. Everyone shouts sometimes don’t they? And then I thought, actually they are right, Ex was screaming not just shouting, like OP has also said, And in front of the,children. If it causes fear and intimdation, then it is wrong. Psychological and verbal abuse are being taken seriously and the police will come out if you feel threatened.

I did not realise I felt threatened until I realised that I was so distraught and upset that I would leave the house for a while.

We know that is not okay.

These are not arguments. They are verbal attacks and if they come out of nowhere, that is scary and we don’t know when they will hit next.

However our partners do not see that they have crossed a line. That’s what the support worker I think was trying to get across. That I needed to totally draw a line that I would not allow to be crossed, ever. And that I needed to use the backup of the police if needed. Even saying that could stop him in his tracks.

MulticolourMophead · 17/01/2020 08:39

I don't think this is the end of our marriage, but I am prepared to end it if it damages me or our children.

It's already damaging you and your children. You're walking on eggshells (the peacekeepers bit) and children see and hear more than you think.

Been there, done that, left after 30 years wishing I'd done it sooner.

billy1966 · 17/01/2020 12:24

@WildChristmas

Thank you for explaining that.
I get it.
I really do.
Huge wisdom in what you have posted.

I bet if women called the police earlier, it would indeed stop a lot of men in their tracks.

I read a few years ago that in some US states, they changed the legislation that domestic incidents would be prosecuted without a statement from (usually) the woman. Just on the basis that they were called and on the word of the cops.

Figures showed it had an effect on domestic violence, when women could not be intimidated by partners to withdraw a statement or not give one in the first place.

Once a 999 call was made, the perpetrator was removed and charged.

Neighbours calling because of screaming was enough for the police to call too and remove someone overnight.

The point was...in taking every single call very seriously, the found figures of violence reduced.

Again, interesting.

80skid · 17/01/2020 20:54

I've spoken to him. I said I didn't want to be shouted and sworn at and that this was not the marriage I want or the childhood I want the kids to have. Initially he tried to turn it on me, I made him angry by the tone of my voice, but I didn't accept that. He did apologise without me asking. He's angry and brought up a few things, but I it seems he has taken it as some sort of ultimatum. Not how I had put it, but in all honesty, it is a deal breaker. We'll see how we go. My children will not be growing up thinking this is how to express yourself/win arguments or have a need to dominate.
Thank you everyone who has read and commented. For now, things are frosty but I'm pleased I've stood my ground and set my stall out as it were.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 17/01/2020 21:03

Well done OP. It is very difficult to draw a line in your marriage and say no more.

Not easy. You have drawn your line.

Well done OP.

No more.

💐💐

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 17/01/2020 23:54

Well done, I hope your message got through.

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