Childrens Services not sharing information with each other

[IdontGetIt29]

Just before Christmas i had a random visit from Childrens Services saying theyd had an anonymous report i had been shouting at my children. As it happens the week prior id had a row with the alcoholic next door who said she was ringing SS on me. So i knew where the claims had come from, i get on with my other neighbours and they babysit my children for me

The woman came to my house, we spoke, i admitted i do shout occasionally, but we arnt really a generallt shouty household. She rang school, spoke to them was happy enough with what they said and rang me back a few days later to say she had no concerns and i wouldnt be hearing from her again

I dont answer the door to strangers so asked her if this ever happens again can they ring me before hand so i know to answer. She took my number and said she would update the system

Today i got a call from childrens services again, they said theyd had an annynous referral so i said "what? Again?" & she told me her colleuge was off sick & hadnt updated the system so could she come round tomorrow.

I said yes but also said that the other woman had been and spoken to school and been to the house and she just made a time to visit tomorrow

But the more i think about it the more this doesnt make sense

The 1st woman must of updated the system to of added my number and my request to be phoned beforehand....

So now i dont know whats happening..... did the woman update the system but had a concern but didnt tell me? If so, surely they have to tell you? She told me she had no concerns and that it was closed as such. I have never had any formal writing from them or anythibg, it was a handwritten note when i missed their fiest visit and i have spoken to them twice on the phone

If she didnt update the system properly then how did they know to ring me beforehand plus how did they get my number!

I have anxiety & since we spoke ive just had a horrible feeling. It doesnt make sense that the colleuge didnt uodate the system to say she had visited and sorted it but she uodated it with my request to ring

I went and spoke to school after the 1st woman visited and school had no safegaurding issues with my children and the next day theyhad asked how i was feeling ( id gotten upset telling them id had a random visit for shouting ) and school told me that the woman hd rang and theyd spoke to her

Im worried this new woman will ring school and rhen school will wonder why theyve hsd 2 seperate people ring

Has anybody had this happen? Its really stressing me out

Sorry forgot to say the 2nd woman confirmed it was about the shouting so this isnt a new referal or anything

Bump.

Perhaps the first woman hasn't updated the system but second woman just tends to call people.

Google the name of your county + Multi-agency Safeguarding hub. It should come up with a phone number. Call the MASH, give them your name, explain the situation and ask what's happening with your case. They should be able to explain what's going on, why you received an additional home visit etc. If you don't get a satisfactory explanation as to speak to the Team Manager and just explain that you feel you've been given contradictory information and that the uncertainty is causing you anxiety.

The new woman came round, she said the other woman had gone on sick and hadnt updated the system so they just needed to confirm stuff, we spoke and i said the same as last time and she seemed happy enough. She said she would ring school and get back to me

She rang me today and had spoken to school and said they had no concerns. She offered some sort of volentary writing plan ( somthing to do with asking them their feelings etc ) for the children and when I said i would rathar not as this all seems a bit much for shouting considering id let them visit twice and twice school have told them no issues

She then said she would have to speak to her manager and it would look bad on me, she then said the reason id had 2 people involved was because the 1st person forgot to do it, i said but she rang me and told me the case was closed? And she said it has to be done, i said you just said it was volentary?

Im in the process of starting to move from temporary housing to permenant housing, i am applying for furniture as we have none etc, im just stressed. I said to her i would rathar it all be over and done with because the anxiety makes me worried

She said shes going to ring me beck but im dreading the phone call now

If there was concerns i understand it but twice now they have been to see me and they have spoken to school, i dont see why this is becoming a bigger deal than it needs to be,

When it comes to bureaucracy I’d assume it’s just incompetence until proven otherwise. The right paper wasn’t signed or the right box wasn’t ticked so it needs to be redone.

Op, sorry you're going through this. A worker would have created the file on the system. They then have to do the visit, write up the visit, and get a senior's decision put on to agree/disagree and then close it. There's lots to input and in different parts of the system so it's plausible this can have happened.
If those later stages aren't done then that'll be why someone has contacted you again.

Re asking to do the work with the kids in school it is voluntary. Don't let yourself be bullied into it. It only 'looks bad' if in six months time there's a clear child protection concern and you've refused input before.

I'm a social worker, and to me it 'looks bad' on my cases if I'm coercing kids into seeing me because it makes me feel better about my write ups... We're meant to practice anti oppressively!

Thank you for the replies

That makes sense as they said the first woman went on sick leave, so maybe she didnt have time to update the system properly.

Im just worried this is going to turn into somthing bigger than it needs to be now, i could of made it all a lot easier and said yes but because they have twice told me they dont have any concerns i just dont see what my family could gain from an emotion plan or map plan cant remember now

My children are 5 and 3. My 5 year old can express her feelings well for age, my 3 year old can get their point across easily too

I dont want to be marked down as being "difficult" if they had said theyd had concerns i would jump through hoopd and do exactly as they asked

But because twice in the space of a few weeks over the same issue they have said they have no concerns, so i dont want to if they themselves have said all looks ok

How can i politely tell her no then without her getting mad? She was lovely when she visited and lovely at first on the phone but it ended not aggressive but arsey as such, i dont know how to word it, you could tell she was annoyed id said no

I forgot to add too, the request to be called is a red herring; we always call before a visit if there is a number of the system, unless there is an explicit reason not to (rare, but in certain immediate risk situations)

Re how to respond, I would suggest something along the lines of you don't feel it's in your children's best interests to meet with a stranger and that their views can better be sought by someone at school who knows them. School staff are in my experience pretty good at 'checking in' with kids without the kids realising that's what is happening. That way you're happy for SS to verify that the children are ok, without impacting them.

This sort of thing annoys me because many confident 'middle class' parents (apologies for generalisations) would refuse access to their kids without question, and other professionals will respect their right to protect their own children, yet many others feel that the same action would create a black mark against them. Of course for some people it can be an opportunity to get some help if things are tough but if you're confident you're doing ok and that it was a malicious call then just explain it calmly and ask for them to check again via school. Take the details of how you can self refer in future if you feel you want a service and leave it at that.

Thanks for replying

I forgot to add too, the request to be called is a red herring; we always call before a visit if there is a number of the system, unless there is an explicit reason not to (rare, but in certain immediate risk situations)

I gave them my number and asked them to call before hand because i dont answer the door to strangers, i moved to the area fleeing DV and my ex still tries to stalk me so i dont answer the door unless i know someone is coming. I explained that to the first woman and she said it was compketely understandable. I have a court order that says he isnt to contact me or the children. I am very worried he will one day find out where we are. Last year he messaged my dad for an address for me so this is a genuine worry of mine. I did explain that so i hope they dont take it as a red herring because its reallynnot anything sinister. I dont post anything personal on social media in csse theres some sort of way he could see it, im always worried. She said it was understandable but now im worried

I didnt answer the door the first time they visited because of above and they left a hand written note and i rang them once they had left. I only said that so they didnt just turn up and i didnt answer

I did explain that the school has a school counsellor of sorts. She isnt a teacher and she is the woman i had to give the cooy of the court order to, she isnt a receptionist, when i went in and spoke about the first visit she came to speak to me as she is the woman who spoke to SS

I said we had spoken and she had said she had no safe gaurding issues around my children

The first time school had asked me if i thought i was struggling and id said not all the time but occasionally, they said they do volentary parent classes in february they asked if i was interested and i said yes. I told the 2nd woman about these classes too. So she also knows im planning on working with school as such

Because she was starting to be pushy about it today i feel funny about saying do it at school because i dont want it looking like her scare tactics have worked

I havnt done anything wrong and i have been open and honest about home life and school have said twice they have no concerns so i do feel annnoyed shes tried to push this when i have explained the whole thing has made me anxious and now they have been told their are no concerns i just want to forget it all

Sorry I didn't mean to imply you don't have genuine reasons for not answering the phone. Just that your phone number being on the system might be the reason you were called and not that it's because the previous SW recorded your request about being called first. The 'red herring' was you assuming that the you were being phoned because the prev social worker had recorded that preference; in all likelihood they went off sick before they updated your child's record about their involvement, actions and how you wanted to be contacted.

I feel for you; despite currently being a social worker I'm from a family background where a call from a social worker would make me feel about 2ft tall.

I'd still suggest a offering that they can verify the kids are ok via school, accepting info about self referral, and closure. Maybe via a low level (tier 1/,initial stage) complaint about the fact that you've been through the process twice due to changes of social worker, but then that's how i'd do it and I'm a picky sod!)

Aw no i didnt take it as you thought i disnt have a good reason, i was worried they took it as a bad thing that i like to be warned if someone is coming to the house

in all likelihood they went off sick before they updated your child's record about their involvement, actions and how you wanted to be contacted that is definetly more likely to be whats happened isnt it, thank you,

I feel for you; despite currently being a social worker I'm from a family background where a call from a social worker would make me feel about 2ft tall This is it, i feel like a child waiting to be told off, i feel really guilty and uneasy and i havnt done anything terrible. I do shout occasionally but that is it, occasionally. My children go to school every day they dont go to school dirty or hungry or upset, they dont get hit or emotionally abused, they have a nice life i think.

It sounds silly but life has been out of my control for a long time now and now i am finally getting some control of our lives back this happens and then it wont go away.

I did think about making a complaint about going through the process twice but then got worried id be seen as trouble

I know most are just people trying to do their jobs but there is a stigma to them and it frightens me. Im really anxious about tomorrow and im trying not to be

I cant even not answer the phone because im waiting for a call off the housing people about moving.

When i fled DV they wernt majorly involved ( was staying with a friend the first 6 weeks ), they came to visit us but as id left the area and was going court they just offered support, once it went to court and he was found guilty i went into temporary housing and they signed us off once id registered the kids at nursery doctors and dentist

I felt "lucky" to have had such little "trouble" from them at the time and still feel lucky now that they wernt more involved, i know several woman who have been through the same as me and they have had SS involved for a long time after, my case was done with a month after court and aside from these recent events i never heard anything from them since

So now as stupid as it is i feel like its caught up on me now and now they will be overly involved over somthing minor when they should of been overly involved last time when it was life changing events.

I have been looking at the childs Map plan and if i have been looking at the right thing i cant see what it could do to help anyone anyway? My children are 3 & 5, my 5 year old understands emotions really well and can explain how she is feeling easily. My 3 year old can tell you he is mad sad or happy. He also knows grumpy lol. My 5 year old can also say that it made her feel sad when her friends didnt want to play the same game as her aswell so they are good at k owing how they are feeling

Sorry if this is rambled, although im not writing this well i am not stupid,

I have anxiety, depression and PTSD and my thoughts just end up spiralling if im stressed. I am due to start CBT this month which will apparently help

I did not tell the woman about my mental health issues but to be fair they didnt ask

Thank you for taking the time to reply i really appreciate it

OP I'm not a social worker but work in a related area and with social workers on a daily basis, I used to work with women in your exact situation for a number of years. I agree with all that's been said by swim, and feel free to tell them thanks but no thanks, in accessing anything I need elsewhere, feel free to check in with the school periodically if you'd like. I'd only add they might be giving you a way to access a bit of support around emotions for the children or anything else just because of what you've all been through, which is no fault of yours and there's nothing wrong with a bit of support if you want it. Like you said about the classes at school, if that makes you feel more comfortable go for it, no one is going to judge you for that.

OP, I am a SW in a small 'patch based' team. I have recently picked up cases from someone who had to go on mat leave unexpectedly (ie went into labour)! and have also in the past inherited cases from agancy workers who have suddenly left without leaving anything on the system. I sympathise, I find it frustrating but for families it is really soul destroying to go through it again and also reflects really badly on us as a profession.
It is really hard picking up these cases. Professionally we offer platitudes and make excuses but at times share your frustration and have our own opinions on our co-workers. But we all make mistakes and I know that now my LA have made our teams so small there really is no slack when when people are sick/covering others workers when on leave or when you have cases that need intensive work; easily taking up the entire working week. I am not making excuses, as workers we hate it too.

Just be honest with your worker about how frustrating this is. We are not here to find problems where there are not any but we cannot 'sign off' without making sure there is no need for further intervention . Social workers have to ensure they have given the child an oppurtunity to share concerns, we are the social worker for the child after all. An experienced social worker will be able to do this without causing anxiety and in a child focused way. No one will put words in your child's mouth and certainly it should not be 'an interview' but just a session understanding what life is like for the child. In lots of cases this is reassurance that we have no further role. We will use school support workers/ professionals who the child knows and often it is appropriate for them to lead. We understand that children will not feel comfortable with a stranger, this goes against what we teach them!
However what I will say to you, as I do to every parent, what I do know is that in my huge city there are children who are at risk and families who need support. Without assessment, I do not know which referrals need further intervention and which can be closed. No one is more invested in your child than you, but I have a statutory duty. I am a parent too and I understand scrutiny of your parenting is anxiety making and hurtful.
Finally, it is rubbish thay records have not been updated. Bad practice. However, again I am not making excuses but hopefully offering some insight, the system I am expected to keep records on is so cumbersome it will take twice as long to write up a visit, minutes from meetings etc than the time it takes me to undertake them. This is due to the people who design them not actually using them (senior management) and also being geared towards monitoring I am doing things within timescales rather than being fit for purpose. If I am totally swamped with cases heading to court/in court/ adoption paperwork or kinship paperwork, often the lower level stuff is not done straight away. This is not okay but even working efficiently and doing extra hours, social workers have been expected to do a lot more with a lot less for several years now.

Thank you for replying this has made me feel slightly better about today

I'd only add they might be giving you a way to access a bit of support around emotions for the children or anything else just because of what you've all been through I didnt look at it like that, I am/was worried it was going to be focused on how she feels when i shout at her

No one will put words in your child's mouth and certainly it should not be 'an interview' but just a session understanding what life is like for the child This is what i am frightened of if i am being honest. I am worried they are going to ask my DD how she feels when mummy shouts and then they will mark me down as abusive

I know logically this is probbaly just my anxiety making me think worse than it needs to be but when all these thoughts are going round your head it just makes you worried doesnt it.

Thank you for giving me a bit of insight into their workload, that has made me feel better. It feels very personal at the minute which it will do but realisticly its just their job isnt it.

Thank you for replying

OP, I have had SS on the doorstep when I’ve been going through a bad time before. It’s really upsetting and feels like it makes things worse. I found the best way to approach it was to think, ok, this is happening, I wouldn’t choose it and I probably don’t need it but as it’s happening anyway I’ll get what I can out of it. at the end of the day SWs are there to help families out, although it doesn’t feel like it at times, especially if you get an arsehole one, but if you just let them get on with whatever they need to do they’ll be out the road soon enough. If you can get extra support all the better.

I went on a parenting course last year, not because they thought I needed to, but because I asked them if I could. I wasn’t doing a bad job, but still the course was quite helpful. It gave me some different perspectives that I hadn’t thought much about before and it gave me some stratergies to deal with DS, who isn’t a bad lad but like any other DC can have his challenging moments.

At the end of the day though they are just there to offer support if you need it, and sometimes you don’t realise you need a bit of support until you get it. I would advise you to basically get what you can out of them. It makes them happy because they can see you’re engaged with them and doing the best for your DC and it’s actually rather good for you as like I’ve already said, sometimes a bit of extra support is really helpful, even if you think you can get by fine without it.

Parenting is a bloody difficult job, so the way I see it is the more help and support you can get, the better, especially if like me you’ve been through a difficult time.

@IdontGetIt29 - just to reassure you I don't think this is anything you have done wrong etc.

I had a situation with SS last year where the SW was doing a risk assessment which took her a long time to do. Eventually she told me it was done and she just needed to speak to me about it and it was finished. Before she could speak to me she went off sick and apparently noone could access her work and it had to be started again. So to me your situation sounds similar in that the 2nd SW is having to do the work again as the 1st has gone off sick.

They are very keen to talk about 'wishes and feelings' work. But in my experience it is more of a tick box exercise as they don't seem to really care about the children's wishes and feelings unless it fits in with what they want to do! They are also very keen at not letting you know things are voluntary and when you find out they admit it's voluntary but if you don't do it it will 'look bad' and hint at moving to CP even though there is no grounds - so not really that voluntary! However in your case as it seems something in nothing I don't think declining the wishes and feelings work will matter. The fact you have a good relationship with school and working with them as well as engaging with SS and being honest and open will be a huge positive and I don't think you have anything to worry about.

OP, I am not a SW but once ended up with them checking my family out, as they have yours.
I think your reactions are spot on, personally. You have been polite and patient. You have, correctly, kept your MH issues to yourself. You have, correctly, pointed out that their subsequent proposals/demands are not logical. You are, correctly, concerned that they might put words into your kids’ mouths.
It would be wise now to wait and see if they don’t just sign you off. I’d say the chances are good. Sorry that you are going through this. I was not able to live normally until the ‘case closed’ letter arrived.

I was expecting a call today but she hasnt rang me back, do you think shes trying to make me sweat it out

Its just my anxiety but i have had a bad feeling all day & its even worse the later its got. Nursery spoke to me today as theyd had a call from them and nursery said theyd said they had no concerns, have known us for over 2 years and never had any issues and that they have me on social media ( nursery page ) and know that we do a lot of things as family, they were really nice and said that considering they have really well off parents at nursery that my children have more expierience and more outings etc than children with well off parents. ( That was really nice to hear because i always feel like i could be doing more for them & be better ) She said i was a good mum which was nice to hear,

Realisticly this will get dropped soon enough because even though they had a malicious annymous referal everything they have checked shows nothing negative

Im hoping it blows over anyway, logic tells me it will but my anxiety still makes me worried

I dont know what to say yet if she mentiond the emotions plan again, after speaking to nursery i felt a bit more confident in saying yes ( i told nursery i was worried about it and why and nursery said its not like that, they said they have children going to school in september who use it and they dont have social involved, she said its to show children how to handle their emotions ) so i felt a bit more at ease once id spoken to her

But i am still worried they have the potential to put words in my DD's mouth. Im just going to have to wait for the phonecall and see what she says arnt I

I havnt had a call back yet. I know its only half way through the week but do you think this is it now?

She rang on the 14th, visited on the 15th, rang again on the 16th, i thought id get a phonecall back quite quickly

I dont know if its done now or if they will get back in touch in a few weeks again

If you're not sure, it's worth giving them a ring. Again, not making excuses but in this job you can feel like it's only been a day since you were meant to ring someone and realise it's been a week, because there's just so much to do.
It's quicker for them to make a decision than it is to write up the paperwork to close it down so you might be able to find out with a call.

She rang again today, its closed now. She didnt mention the emotions thing again, just repeated that she had spoken to school and nursery, repeated positive things that had been said about the children and had no concerns of any kind

She was really nice, apologised for 2 people coming around for the same thing and said good luck.

So i feel a lot better about the whole thing. I also feel a bit about if another malicuous call gets made by the neighbour as it is all positives on my end,

Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply i was very anxious about the whole thing and posters helped calm me for a bit!

Thanks all