"Benefit scrounger" or not?

[SympatheticSwan]

Asking out of interest, to settle an offline debate. Would you consider the below to be ethical or not (i.e. along the lines of "benefit scrounging").
Someone who used to earn in excess of £100K and had now dramatically cut back working hours, resulting in the total salary of around £60K. Claims 30 free childcare hours and tax free childcare allowance (not available on incomes over £100K), as well as the single person council tax discount.

OH! Under Universal Credit, if I get a job, I'm able to keep 37p out of every £1 I earn. Please, rejoice this change! It used to be that I could only earn 5p out of every £1. I honestly don't know what to say. I am trying, so hard, to not be a burden on society, but honestly, £317 a month, for rent, Council tax, electricity, water, and food doesn't work. Even with my maths skills. I'm actually left with, after paying bills, £140 a month. If the month is a "big" month, i.e cleaning stuff, washing stuff, etc. then that decreases by about £3 a month, which doesn't sound much does it? Unfortunately, it has a huge impact on my income. I read posts on here, and read about how much people spend, on make up alone. I want to say, You Go Girl!! I am SO pleased, that you have that xx it's been earned, and earned the difficult way, I know. It just didn't work out for me. Shit happens.

Council tax is charged at 50% property 50% occupiers on the basis of two adults resident. All single person discount does is reflect that. It's not a benefit.

No scrounging going on here at all.

they are on the same 60K but full time, being less qualified

Well surely there is a way for them to become more qualified, courses, training etc which the other person has surely done to achieve their status.

This isn't about benefits at all it is about person A wanting £60k and part time hours which clearly is achievable as demonstrated by person B.

If memory serves from when I worked in Council Tax it is a 50% property charge and a 50% charge for 2 adults living at the property. Hence the 25% reduction for a single occupier.

This is a parent of a young child who is below school age wanting a little better life/work balance claiming tax breaks which are rightfully theirs. What issue does the person have with them to challenge this? My guess would be either an ex or a BIL like mine who would (and did) argue with a six year old that the world is not approximately spherical just because he liked being awkward.

£60k isn’t a huge amount of money. My DH ‘Earned’ £55k last tax year. Not including NI he paid £14k in tax. Our rent (private sector) was £13k. £27k gone like that. I wouldn’t call them a scrounger , there is very little help available to people once you reach a certain threshold so if you use it fair enough.

cross posts with married

But ultimately this isn't benefit scrounging and if person A could do i they bloody well would.

No to the OP's question.

Good luck @willothewispa & @FallenAngel01 - I have been unemployed for a while also and keep getting turned down for jobs (I'm older too), but I now have one in the pipeline so don't give up hope

Also, OP, the way tax free childcare works is that you forfeit some of your salary so that you get tax relief on it. It's really not like the childcare element of tax credits/UC; it's like the salary sacrifice arrangements loads of people make for pensions etc.

The 30 free hours is actually 15 hours of totally universal entitlement (all 3 year olds are entitled to it) plus an extra 15 hours that applies to the majority of working families. It's also not 30 hours for 52 weeks a year.

And it's paid at a truly pathetic hourly rate that does not reflect the cost of childcare. That means that many providers have to charge more for the hours people use beyond this '30 free hours than they would have if the government funded it adequately to offset their losses (which means it often reduces a childcare bill that's been inflated anyway - and you are paying more to subsidise the people who are getting 'free' childcare because they only use 15 or 30 hours). 30 free hours won't cover the childcare requirements for most parents earning £60k and, of someone is using tax free childcare, then they're definitely paying for the additional hours they use.

Let's not kid ourselves that the UK provides generous childcare support to working families.

I'd say here the issue for the critic is that this person's a single parent
I came to the same conclusion, that they see it as a "single parent loophole" and somehow consider it unfair.

It sounds less about 'co-managing' (whatever that means) and more about 'hitting a nerve' yourself. You believe there's some inequality there and were looking for agreement and validation for you to be annoyed.

You've tried to couch the terms to be less incendiary as you don't want posters to rightly pull you up for using the derogatory term, 'scrounger'. It is clear though that it's entirely what you meant.

So they're a since parent and have reduced their hours? Perfectly sensible IME.
I can only manage 3 days a week due to my health and dc's behaviour problems.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe
Wow, thanks for reading my thoughts. I asked precisely what I wanted to ask, thanks, with no attempt to dress up the question.
Co-managing means that I am job sharing with another colleague, and the person in question reports into the position we both hold.

No, because the person in all likelihood will end up putting far more into the system than they ever take out.

(Through tax)

Like PP I don't consider anyone claiming their legal entitlement a scrounger. Should households of 4 adults offer to pay more council tax? Of course no one is going to pay more than what they owe.

OH!! Just remembered!! Are you aware, that when your State Pension comes in, you WILL be paying tax on that? Because, your work pension is not taxed at source? Bit of a bugger, if you weren't expecting that.Any pension is subject to tax. Check your pay slips. You didn't pay tax on your pension contributions did you? I'm paying tax, on Universal Credit, FFS! HMRC claim your tax, ask questions later. Check everything. Properly check x

Someone has swallowed a bitter pill, methinks.

You're welcome, OP.

Anybody who thinks it's acceptable to apply the term "benefit scrounger" to any person is vile and ignorant. Their ignorance and malice is the issue. Don't validate it by searching for some kind of threshold at which it would be acceptable to fling such a nasty term at another human being.

Social security, taxes, funded childcare etc etc are part of how we operate as a community since our population is too large and complex to manage such things on an informal basis.

Someone calling their colleagues "benefit scroungers" should be getting short shrift.

It's people like that who mean I don't go to the food bank because I won't be seen as a scrounger I get child tax credit and feel bad about that but I need so money

I am both a welfare benefits advisor and a benefits claimant.
I don't engage in debates about which claimants are more deserving than others. I don't think theres anything to be gained by it.
If your entitled then you can claim.
Fwiw I can understand why someone with a young family would want to reduce their hours

Of course they are not scrounger, how ridiculous and nasty. Stinks of jealousy.

Just because they earn more than the person who was insulting them doesn't mean they are not entitled to help. The cap should be higher anyway.

For too many idiots, anyone who earns more than they do is "rich" and should get nothing. Stupid.

The person working earning £60k and reduced hours to fit in with their young child is doing the right thing for their child presumably and it is probably due to hard work that they are able to do that.

The 30 free hours are in reality probably topped up by this person as when you look into the free hours they often don't cover the actual childcare required so I am sure this person is paying childcare fees on top.

The other person is obviously jealous and really it is none of their business to know about these financial arrangements.

How can it be scrounging in any way when you work FT? Sounds like they're doing the right thing for the best life possible. Most couples I know do this and take advantage of the 30 hours.

I don't work. It's me who's apparently the scrounger. Not that anyone has any clue about what landed me in this situation - or the amount of effort I'm making to get myself out of it. It's just "Oh there's that bit of scrounging scum, don't go near it" I will never ever judge anyone on benefits. It's the most depressingly awful way to live - and the way you're treated makes it even harder to get out of.

they often don't cover the actual childcare required so I am sure this person is paying childcare fees on top.

No of course they don't. Before and after school and all the holidays are all hours that FT workers are expected to work and have childcare in place for.

To those saying that 60k is not a small amount - it entirely depends on where you live. If your job is in London for example, 60k per annum with kids is not a lot at all - I'd even say, barely manageable. Not a scrounger, at all.