To think that many older people look at the past through rose tinted glasses

[Mammylamb]

I’m on a lot of local chat groups on Facebook, many of which are really interesting.

But every week or so, there will be a post lamenting the good old days when supposedly everything was great and people were just better, men were men, kids were well behaved and women looked after the home(although they had less money)

Every time I see these posts I just get intensely irritated; kids and young people today are not worse behaved than in the past (many young folk seem to have better manners than older people). And the old days were not perfect, child abuse and domestic violence were rife. Men were legally able to rape their wife.

Aibu to get irritated by this

I was brought up in the 70s and 80s. It was a bit shit. The world and human existence is much better nowadays.

@echt, I’m not young or even millennial but they have a point about the Boomers. A quick google search would tell you that to buy a house within commuting distance of work was 2.5-3 times was feasible. Now, that’s not even enough for a garage in London or anywhere where there’s work because who has a salary of 25k in London can afford £3k of train pass a year. Sure, the interest rates were high for a few years but 18% on 1500k will never match 3% on 400k for 25 years that you need now.
They got final salary pensions, open up the market to foreigner investors that the only thing they did was screw up housing for the rest.
And who gets final salary pensions nowadays? Even the best graduate from the best university can’t. Millennials went for a job at the height of recession and many are still struggling with livable salaries. There was social mobility and grammar schools.
I am classed as GenX and count myself lucky and I do see that millennials have a point.

When older people express nostalgia for the ‘good old days’ they are really mourning their own youth, and regretting the fact that it has passed.

Yep. And you'll do it when you're older too, OP.
Having said that, I've never posted things like that on FB (I'm 64), and never will, because they're twee and inaccurate.

And who gets final salary pensions nowadays?

I will and I'm not too old yet either.

Children are worse behaved nowadays. We would never dare carry on the way kids do today. Certainly not in public.

And the gang problem has only become rife since it became wrong to smack. Just saying..

I’m 65. Fair few ageists on this thread then!

I’m reading comments about how it couldn’t have been good back in the 70’s and 80’s because of the general racism and sexism and I’m wondering how you think that changed?

Because we, my age group, started that change and it was bloody hard.

I was active in both the Anti Nazi League and Rock Against Racism. I got beaten up, I got arrested, but still I’d be out there next time.

I worked in a Job Agency that had a practice of writing NB (No Blacks) on the corner of certain job cards because the employer only wanted White workers. I didn’t walk out in protest, I stayed and got the practice stopped.

Yes there were strikes and 3 day weeks but you need to understand the reasons behind them. Yes there were inconveniences, life wasn’t simple, but most of us understood why...because Workers were being treated like shit and things needed to change. But now all those workers’ rights that the unions won, not just around pay but a lot of Health and Safety issues, are being eroded day by day....

Don’t even get me started on Women’s Lib....I’m glad I’m not going to be around to see where that’s gone in 50 years time if people don’t start opening their eyes and fighting back...I’m not even going to go there on this one.

Right, I don’t post on FB often and I’ve never posted a ‘good old days’ post but I think I’ll fling a whole load on there and I hope every single one irritates the crap out of the OP and all the other smug Ageists on here.

the gang problem has only become rife since it became wrong to smack

That's simply not true, there have always been gangs and there was more street violence in the past than now. Not to mention the football casuals.

I can't think on a single man of my age and acquaintance who hasn't been physically assaulted on the street. Plenty of lads my son's age who never been 'jumped', never been in a fight though.

Well said Estury! I’m 56, l left a local fb page because people kept putting on that shite about when kids were kids and men worked.

The best bits of my life mainly revolve around being very very drunk in the Hacienda every night, and carefully crafting my amazing Mohawk which stopped people in the streets.

@karencantobe - I'm not saying things haven't improved, but they still have a long way to go. Women are still being killed all the time by violent partners, and children also - I would say more children now than when I was young. (Incidentally I don't live in the UK)

For me the big difference between then and now is that when I grew up, though some things were bad, there was a general optimism that science and the fight for equality would gradually make things better.

Some of the things that marked that progress are beginning to go backwards.

Life expectancy in the U.K. is falling.

theconversation.com/life-expectancy-in-britain-has-fallen-so-much-that-a-million-years-of-life-could-disappear-by-2058-why-88063

There was also much more freedom as a child. Not simply in being allowed out, but since the mid-2000s, excessive genderisation of children’s clothes and toys has crept in. I know this because I have a daughter who hated pastel and pink frilly clothes and it got more and more difficult to find anything in the girls’ section she would wear. It worries me that women’s rights are under threat. Gains made can quickly be reversed. There are many examples round the world where that has occurred. Additionally I naively assumed (in the 80s) we had nearly achieved equal rights. A survey of my profession in 2018 demonstrated clearly that little progress had been made since I qualified almost thirty years ago.

Personally I think the major difference now is the lack of that feeling of optimism. Pretty sure it isn’t just me. Teenage suicide rates are much higher now than in the 50s when a lot of things were theoretically worse.

I hope it will swing back again. I know the past wasn’t perfect, but I don’t think it’s all rose-tinted spectacles. Things are pretty shit right now for many people in the U.K. and I think a lot of it is down to austerity.

@TheBouquets - you put it very well. I don't live in the UK so haven't seen a lot of the poverty and troubles other posters have mentioned, so I daresay I have a different view on life when I was young. Morals have certainly changed in recent times, I am fairly broad minded but have found myself shocked at some of the behaviour which seems to be tolerated now.

the gang problem has only become rife since it became wrong to smack

That's simply not true, there have always been gangs and there was more street violence in the past than now. Not to mention the football casuals. I can't think on a single man of my age and acquaintance who hasn't been physically assaulted on the street. Plenty of lads my son's age who never been 'jumped', never been in a fight though.

There have always been gangs but not the extent that there are now. In my area there are so many stabbings and shootings that they aren't even news anymore.

Fair few ageists on this thread then!

Quite. For Mumsnet, ageism appears to be one of the last few acceptable prejudices.

People have always had a rose tinted view of the past. I remember studying a 16th century text that lamented how the rise of sheep farming meant young men weren't as strong enough to pull a longbow anymore....(harking back to the golden age of Agincourt!). And I'm sure I've read an extract if an ancient Greek text lamenting how young people are rude and lacking respect these days.

Already I notice myself having some nostalgia for when I was younger (of course it was better, I didn't have any responsibilities!)

Stabbings and slashings never were news. I'm from the Glasgow area, Glasgow was notorious for knife crime. Guns not so much but don't you remember Manchester's reputation for gun crime in the 90s? Did you never read Brighton Rock and learn of the razor gangs? Never hear of mods and rockers? Or recall the skinheads? Or have to avoid football firms squaring up to each other on a Saturday afternoon?

Yes there has been an increase in gang violence in London of recent years compared to ten years ago, but compared to the 80s, 70s, earlier?

I think the worse bit of growing up when I did was the racism and class barrier and lack of central heating.

The way we were looked down upon because we were the immigrant family.

The internet changed everything.

Before everything was a huge secret that you had to work to find out just basic stuff.

No one would tell you and if you needed to find out about anything out of your area it involved a visit to a library or a lot of letter writing or phone calls.
Once you had found the number to call or address to write the letter.

I was one of those that got on my bike (actually it was a coach) and left behind my birth city and left to find work in another place.

There was nothing where I was from apart from working ft for £80 per month

Moved and doubled my income.

Even getting a place to live involved a lot of travel and getting what was available on the day.

eaglejulesk it is wonderful to me to have modern machines. It makes my life easier. If you prefer not to have an automatic washing machine, dryer, dishwasher etc that's up to you.

I agree that there is less freedom now. I had a pretty free range childhood in the 60s and 70s which was the same as all my friends. Provided we were back on time for meals that was it.

My youthful misdemeanours have all faded away. There is no surviving proof! No online bullying either of course.

Unlike today’s youngsters. With social media all is recorded for future employers to find. No escape from a bully either. Image is everything. Reality is distorted. We could rely on our photographs. Now everything must be perfection, life is reflected through instagram filters and photoshop. No wonder we have such an epidemic of mental health problems. They existed before of course and yes brushed under the carpet but even so it seems nowadays that the person not on anti depressants is the exception.

We also had a break between work and home. No work emails to interrupt a weekend or holiday and what didn’t get done in working hours had to wait til the morning. Now there is no escape.

Yes I remember the days of no central heating etc and my living standards are much higher now. But it has all come at a cost. I’m glad I was born when I was.

Teenage suicide rates are much higher now than in the 50s when a lot of things were theoretically worse.

Suicide does not appear to be related to objective hardship but to be cultural so it seems something about our culture has gone awry.

@jasperrising But the longbow thing may be true. People develop muscles in response to the jobs or exercise they are doing. If no one was using longbows routinely, then yes the muscles necessary for this were probably not strong enough.

I do find that sometimes facts get dismissed as nostalgia, and sometimes it is simply nostalgia.

So some facts. People were thinner in the recent past, and did have smaller portions with few snacks. I think babies and kids did benefit physically from having more sunshine and being outdoors and had more exercise. Kids abilities to do things like dress themselves did in general develop at a younger age. There did seem to be more elderly people living with their families - there are pros and cons to this. Things were made to last. Kids mental health was better. Kids did have more freedom - good if you had good parents. Kids also had more day-to-day contact with other adults like neighbours and extended family - could be good or bad, dependent on the adults. Trade unions were stronger and did defend workers rights.

But poverty was worse, racism, sexism, disablism and homophobia was worse and more explicit. Disabled kids and adults were often in terrible institutions. Gay and lesbian people were sometimes put in mental hospitals for being lesbian and gay. Many people thought if a woman was being beaten up by her husband she should put up with it - she married him. Sexual harassment at work was common.

I think if you were privileged the past was better. If you were gay, disabled, black, have an abusive partner, or just like living your life in an unusual way - now is better.

And the gang problem has only become rife since it became wrong to smack. Just saying..

This train of thought always confuses me.

My DC are growing up to be nice people because I have influenced and taught them to be so. Not because I have smacked the 'bad' out of them.

People often say kids are terrible nowadays because the school don't give the belt, what utter nonsense. Kids grow up to realise what is acceptable because of what you teach them, not how often you hit them.

Yes suicide rates went down during the war when food was rationed, people were being bombed out of their homes, relatives and partners were being killed, children sent away for safety from parents who lived in Cities, and new goods were hard to come by. Objectively it was a very tough time.
But suicide rates seem to go down if people feel part of a community, a sense of belonging.

I am against corporal punishment. But I do think an issue was created when corporal punishment became a no go, and some parents did not know how else to teach their kids to behave.

I think it depends on your heritage about how free you were in the 60s and 70s

Maybe if you were from a British family you had that freedom but as an immigrant you had to be careful where you went.

Regularly would get chased or shouted at in the streets if you wandered into a different road or area.
Also the Moors murders put a stop to much playing out for everyone and remember the stranger danger message and being within sight of your house at all times was drummed into us.
Freedom only existed for me if it was in the street we lived.
My kids had far more freedom growing up because they had mobile phones that I can see exactly where they are and could contact them at anytime during the day.

Also CCTV meant that travelling into London to meet friends was a lot safer

@Oliversmumsarmy Yes I suspect younger adults these days have no understanding of how difficult it was to get information. I remember reading an essay by a working class author who said all the middle class authors she knew would just know about prizes they could apply for, writer in residences, etc, and how she never heard about it until after it was awarded.
And for immigrants it was even worse.