Viner's Blunt Edged Knives

[NurseButtercup]

In response to the fight against knife crime (yes and it's marketing/pr spin as well) Viner's have launched a new blunt edge knife range.

I actually commend the companies attempt's to reduce their indirect contribution to this issue.

Am I being unreasonable to say well done to Viner's? (I think I'll probably buy a set of these knives)

What do people think?

Ah, you are over generalising again.

Simply carrying a knife is not a crime. I can take a knife from my house to a birthday party venue and use it to cut a cake. That is not a crime in any way. Nor is a professional chef carrying his or her bag of knives to the venue s/he's been asked to cater an event at.

Those things are completely different to concealing a knife on your person and going to do things for which knives are definitely not needed. That is the sort of situation in which the police would and should intervene.

And the issue isn't that you could use your hands (even if you bloody could). The issue is that people determined to carry knives for all the wrong purposes would (and do) just carry some other form of weapon if knives weren't available to them.

Similarly, the issues that contribute to domestic assault are far more complex than the presence or absence of knives.

But, hey, we live in a country where some people being obese is apparently a justification for limiting how many calories there can be in the food everyone buys (whether it matters how many calories they might be consuming in any one meal). So clearly thinking about the actual issues and addressing them is not the done thing. Let's just ban some superficial stuff and pretend it's going to do anything about the real issues.

leaderbee

What's your point? Are you maintaining that knives are less dangerous than a punch?

I have been punched, but thankfully not stabbed. Which do you consider more likely to result in serious injury?

5 minutes with a knife steel would make that blunt end lethal.

5 minutes with a knife steel would make that blunt end lethal.

Innit, it's almost a tanto

@LemonGingerCakes There is resistance because (unlike unsecured cabinets - which people can choose to not secure if they like; ikea just provide the materials to secure them) and blind cords, there are perfectly good reasons why a wide range of people might want a sharp pointy tip on a knife they use to prepare food.

Maybe the world is not just simple and straightforward, eh?

@TheHagOnTheHill Better ban knife steels too, because you couldn't possibly want to legitimately sharpen your kitchen knifes.

woomawang

I don't think you have understood my argument at all.

If knives with blunt tips were the norm, the number of domestic violence deaths and serious injuries would be greatly reduced as the potential to do lasting harm in the heat of an argument is minimised.

I do not understand why anyone would disagree it's a good idea.

If all knives were like this you'd see a sharp fall in stabbings and sharp rise in slashings.

better put those electric knife sharpners of the prohibited articles list too.

And/or a big rise in the number of kids carrying screwdrivers, @c3pu.

Honestly, if I wanted to do someone harm with those knives - I'd totally be able to.

Maybe we should all be issued with blunt, toddler style cutlery and only be allowed to buy pre-chopped food. After all, that would reduce the injury rate from domestic abuse. Who cares what the actual causes of domestic abuse are?

Simply carrying a knife is not a crime.

Er, it can be.

From:

www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Basic laws on knives

It’s illegal to:

<span class="italic">sell a knife to anyone under 18, unless it has a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less</span>

<strong>carry a knife in public without good reason, unless it has a folding blade with a cutting edge 3 inches long or less</strong>

<span class="italic">carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife</span>

<span class="italic">use any knife in a threatening way (even a legal knife)</span>

(contd).

As you would expect, courts have a very strict view on "reasonable". And indeed "public".

(Cached version as original has disappeared)

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L1n_E3Z6rWwJ:www.express.co.uk/news/uk/169587/Man-with-penknife-in-his-car-is-handed-a-criminal-record+" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L1n_E3Z6rWwJ:www.express.co.uk/news/uk/169587/Man-with-penknife-in-his-car-is-handed-a-criminal-record+

Full-time carer Rodney Knowles, 61, used the multi-function Swiss Army-style knife for picnics during camping trips in the countryside with his wife.

Police discovered it alongside a torch, maps and a first aid kit when they searched Mr Knowles’ car after he had passed a roadside breath test.

Mr Knowles, who walks with a cane and is registered as disabled, was hauled before magistrates in Torquay, Devon, on Wednesday and, following legal advice, admitted possessing an offensive weapon.

He was given a conditional discharge. But the conviction will stay on his records.

carry a knife in public without good reason

The caveat is really important. It is not a crime simply to carry a knife.

No one will arrest you for taking a knife with you to your kid's birthday party to cut the cake.

Mr Knowles should have employed a better solicitor.

Camping trip and small pocket knife with the ability to saw small branches for the fire, remove corks from the bottles of the wine you'll be drinking or removing the caps from bottles of beer you might be drinking with your mates, mhmmmm. sounds like "Good reason" to me.

The caveat is really important. It is not a crime simply to carry a knife

You forgot to quote the bit about "reasonable" and my comment that courts have a very narrow range of what is and is not reasonable, as

Mr Knowles should have employed a better solicitor.

found out.

(For the sake of transparency, I do recall there was a lot unreported in that case which would have made the outcome slightly less outrageous).

It's a brave person who wants to argue "reasonable" in court. If for no other reason than if you end up on the wrong end of the definition, it can be extremely costly to go to appeal court and thence SCOTUK.

For the avoidance of doubt, what a panel of Mumsnetters agree on is unlikely to be the same "reasonable" a jury or magistrates might believe.

Anyway, TL;DR is that this stunt by Viners is just that. If anyone can be bothered to return in a years time (12th January 2021) and demonstrate a linked fall in knife crime, I have a bottle of gin, or a vegan cake for the first to cite.

Gotta get those knives into peoples homes first as well, but hey, why do I need to go out and buy a new set of knives when I have several perfectly good pointy ones in the drawers already?

Part of me wonders if it went like this ...

Production manager: Sorry boss, we had a fault with the pointy-end machine, and we're going to have to melt this batch of knives down

CEO: Oh, no ! How much will that cost ?

Marketing director: Hang on, I might just have an idea ...

I think it's ridiculous to think that selling a few point free, blunt knives is going to make any impact on knife crime.

If I were going armed with a knife I'd make damned sure it was the sort of knife that I could do some damage with. I wouldn't be selecting a nice blunt knife from the kitchen.

And again with stabbings in a domestic situation. I very much doubt anyone would go to the kitchen draw and select a blunt table knife. Most kitchens contain some sort of sharp kitchen knives, even if no one does much cooking.

Call me a cynic, but I suspect Viners are jumping on a band wagon here and hoping that they'll be able to sell a few more knives to a worried public.

Call me a cynic, but I suspect Viners are jumping on a band wagon here and hoping that they'll be able to sell a few more knives to a worried public.

Just the fact "Viners" has appeared in thread title on a busy site like MN will have boosted their natural SEO ranking by quite a bit - for free. Which is the really important bit here. Any lives saved or otherwise are just a nice-to-have.

(Now that's cynical).

ProfessorSlocombe

It is cynical, but very probably true.

Every little helps...it's going to have an impact on the person who might have grabbed a knife from the kitchen drawer and gone out angry, if it saves one life it's worth it.

Drawer, dear god I've just seen I type draw when I meant drawer

Every little helps...it's going to have an impact on the person who might have grabbed a knife from the kitchen drawer and gone out angry, if it saves one life it's worth it.

Ah, so the end justifies the means then ?

I don't know what you mean

I'm not sure this will help much. Ds1 is at the age where knife crime is common. Luckily not in our town, so far! It has to start with intent. 15 and 16 and 17 year olds choose to carry a knife.