To not know how hard I’m supposed to be working?

[Lilyamna]

Hi. I was a teacher for 10 years and then re-trained in a new profession. My new contracted hours are 37.5 per week.

It sounds ridiculous but I am finding it really difficult to know whether or not I should be working after office hours. I’ve asked my colleagues what they do, and the response is ‘only when I need to’. But I am finding it really hard l to know the difference between needing to, and choosing to.

As most teachers on here will recognise, the job is filled with to-do lists and everything has a deadline, mostly non-negotiable ones or the classroom and school wouldn’t run well and chaos would reign. So I would just work as much of the evenings and weekends as was necessary to get it all done.

This doesn’t apply to my new job though. I can fit it all into the 37.5 hours, if I want to. It’s just a question of quality. Obviously the longer I spend on something (e.g. a report or a presentation) the better it will be, so I sort of feel I should be carrying on in the eveneings after work because that’s what I always used to do. But usually there is no reason why I can’t just leave it and carry on the next morning. And when judging quality, I do not get the instant feedback that I did in teaching. It’s pretty obvious when a lesson goes badly and I was regularly observed. But in this job there isn’t that constant eveluation going on so I’m never quite sure if something is good enough to ‘finish’ because 5pm has arrived.

So my question is, if you’re in a graduate profession, on a salary scale between 35K and 50K, on a contract of 37.5 hours a week, how expected/common/reasonable is it to be taking home work in the evenings or weekends?

Personally I wouldn't get into the habit of working longer than you're paid for.
Sometimes you will have no choice but to work late but don't do it every day.

Most of this is company culture, just as the teaching stuff is school/education culture. If others only work over when they have to, I'm sure it'll be clear when you have to.

More time spent on a project doesn't always mean it's better tbh!

Take the lead from what others do. Are they staying late most night? Some nights? Never? Are you receiving emails out of office hours? Both of these things are signs.

Stick to your hours for the time being at least. I'm sure you'll soon get a feel for which things need a bit more time. Don't routinely work a lot over your hours. If everyone does this it just stops the company from hiring more much needed staff.

You're not going to know until you've been in the role 6 months to a year realistically, if noone is putting pressure on you. Give yourself time to settle in and you will know then what's expected. Unless you are in a management role where you need to give feedback, then being responsive is obviously helpful to team members, but that doesn't sound the case from what you've written.

You might find the workload ramps up with time and you will be under pressure from deadlines!

I actually have a similar issue - was an academic, moved into university professional services in a university and I feel like my work load is really light and I worry constantly that I must be missing something. All my colleagues talk constantly about how busy and overworked they are (a cynic might point out that this moaning in itself takes up a lot of time...) but when I offer to take things on always have a reason why only they can do it. I honestly can't work out whether I should be doing things I'm not and it makes me quite anxious. After years of working most evenings and every weekends it just feels somehow weird to walk out at 5.01 every night, and even more so to go on holiday and just not do any work.

Sorry, that doesn't help you but just to say that I understand the problem and why this can be genuinely confusing!

I find in any new job I’ve started I can fit everything into my contracted hours. Then over time things creep in, “could you just”, “copying in Howtohelp for advice”, “here’s an exciting project”...

May not be relevant to you but if it has not been too long maybe give it a bit of time.

Thanks for the replies, I can see the point about company culture playing a big part. I am new to the role so also hope things will get a bit clearer with time. It’s tricky to get a feel for it from my colleagues, partly because they are all quite a bit more experienced but also because of flexi hours, so they might be leaving earlb to pick up their kids but then working at home from all I know.

Sorry for all the typos, I’m using my phone!

Don't work what you don't get paid for.

Slightly different to you as I am freelance on a 40 hour week, but I would only work outside office hours if
a) there was a very important deadline approaching - this does not happen often and it is even less frequent that I need to do frantic last-minute stuff as I like to plan ahead, including putting in time for reviews and sign-offs.
or
b) one of the senior managers is having a "fire-drill" moment and has been asked to produce something for a board-level meeting (and forgets to pass on the request for information/slides until 24 hours beforehand)
In the past 5 years I only remember 1 time where I worked up to 22:00 to get my contribution finished and that was actually preparation of a significant contract with a hard deadline for signature and we were still negotiating until the afternoon before the signature deadline.
I am also a morning person, so if something does crop up, I tend to be in the office at 06:00 and will usually have the task finished in 60 or 90 minutes.
I may occasionally log in remotely to review something on a Sunday afternoon, but that is entirely my choice and definitely not expected.

So the short answer is, providing you are meeting deadlines, no, you should not need to take work home.

I get that @just5morepeas, but then I’ve also heard that as a professional you’re paid for doing the job, not by the hour.
In teaching the contracted hours are the minimum and most contracts also state that you are expected to work more hours as necessary.

I’m trying to figure out what this looks like outside of teaching.

Ideally you shouldn't have to work outside your contracted hours to fulfil your job. If you do have to regularly the there is either:

• an efficiency problem with the way you work
• a resource problem with your team/company so there is too much work

How about trying this, Before starting a task, sit and jot down:

• what is the task
• who is it for
• what is the objective
• what criteria would deem it a success
• who needs to be involved in sign off that it is complete and meets the objectives
• what dependencies do you have on other people to complete task that support your work
• what check ins/ reviews do you need to do throughout the duration of the task to confirm it is heading in the right direction.

If you then use that outline to essentially project manage yourself, once you can tick off that the objectives are met and the stakeholders have accepted the work, you know the task has been completed to the required level.

You don't say what industry you're in, but perfectionism tends not to be considered commercial. Are those extra three hours on your report genuinely adding (recoverable) value to the business or are they just soothing your own anxieties/need to be perfect? It's as much about doing a good job as being commercial about how you complete it.

We might work extra hours of we are up against a deadline, but otherwise things can wait until the next day. It's poor time management to work late on something today that isn't required for another two weeks, say.

We also monitor people going over their hours because it suggests we need to recruit additional people. If you're only working extra hours because you feel you should that's not helpful. It's also not very efficient.

Are you in a probationary period? Who reviews your work? Have quality standards been set out to you? What's the relationship between the work you do and the income generated by the business? The profit margins thereon?

Separate the urgent from the important. You might have lots of important work to do (important in context for where you work). I work beyond my hours only when something is urgent. Genuine deadlines that require something to be finished. In my role, this is relatively rare. Most of the time, I have work to do that I prioritise and do within my hours.

Your situation is more or less word for word how I was 6 months ago. Retrained from primary teacher to healthcare professional and started my first qualified job 6 months ago.

After years of over working my hours and massive to do lists, I just don’t do it now in my new job. I work 9-5 claim back lieu time on the very rare occasions I have client visit out of hours etc.

I like to think I do my job well in the hours of work I am paid for - no more, no less.

Can you tell us the industry you've moved into? It might help people advise better.

I’ve also heard that as a professional you’re paid for doing the job, not by the hour.

Yes, in the sense that if there's a deadline etc then you'd stay late or whatever, but not in the sense of it being impossible to complete the job in the normal hours. That's either an efficiency issue with you, or a recruitment/resourcing issue for the business.

Well, unless you've gone somewhere with a culture that views staff as if they've been purchased to work all hours and surrender their personal lives to the business. But from what you've said I don't think you have or your colleagues would have given very different answers to your questions and it would have been obvious to you already.

I moved from education to a job in legal profession a few weeks ago and I had a similar issue.

I would stop talking to your colleagues about it (I did the same) as it may make them feel uncomfortable

It's shocking when you are used to working so incredibly hard, up to 90 hours a week, to a "Normal" job where you are paid the same/more but on average you pretty much do your contracted hours.

I earn £40k and we are not permitted to do more than contracted hours. If a meeting/job pressure/travel takes us over that, we have to take time off in lieu as soon as possible afterwards. Nobody sends emails after 17.30 or at weekends. Everyone turns their work phones off or leaves them in their desk drawers.

It's a revelation. I bloody love it! Welcome to the real world OP!! And congratulations on escaping teaching. It nearly killed me. Not even joking.

Thanks for all your replies and advice - I will definitely try that @TorysSuckRevokeArticle50.

And it’s also helpful to know I am not alone in this situation @LisaSimpsonsbff @LeoTimmyandVi @2020newme.
I am so much happier now than I was teaching. It’s like a new lease of life. And thanks to all your reassurance I can now enjoy the rest of my weekend without feeling guilty

Do not fall into the habit of doing more than you need to. Done is better than perfect. If no one is complaining, you are doing a good job.

I work with someone who came from the private sector into the public sector and they have brought the mentality that they need to be working until 10pm every night. They are also very passive aggressive about the fact I dare to take a lunch break (which I'm not paid for regardless of whether I take it or not) and leave every day before them. They like to imply that I don't work as hard as them. When in reality I am doing my work and not going unnecessarily above and beyond in a pathetic attempt to make myself look good without getting any recognition or financial reward for it. Like they are.