Aibu or are the letting agents regarding viewing property.

[saffronshawty]

So me and OH went to view a rental property earlier this afternoon, just a one bedroomed, one bathroom apartment. The apartment is currently tenanted, but they had 48 hours notice of the time of viewing.

so we meet the estate agent, who guides us up to the apartment, on entering the apartment, the apartment is full of smoke from lighting incenses. We couldn't view the bathroom as the tenants partner was currently using the shower? The tenant also had his mother over from another country, cooking food, so we couldn't really view the kitchen properly, and his guests were in the balcony all smoking, so it was really awkward to be able to look around properly.

At the end of the viewing, we asked if we could come back at another time so we could have a proper viewing, but the estate agent told us, that she had more viewings lined up so we must make a decision now or most likely another person will be ahead of us?
I told her that it was quite unfair that the tenants knew we was coming, but made it as awkward as possible (btw tenants are moving back to own country so it's not like they wanted to stay)

The estate agent just mumbled, and said her next viewings were downstairs.
So we left, and I just want to know, was I expecting too much?

@safariboot

That page is disgusting and exactly why housing should not be an investment plan filled with amateur landlords trying to get rich quickly. Disgusts me that people actually think this is okay or that being a decent landlord means tenants are beholden to them and must allow landlords to break the law and pressure them into giving viewings.

cuparfull you can write whatever clauses you like into a contract - it doesn't mean that they are legally enforceable.

48hrs notice for access is a very common misconception. You can give notice of intent to access but if the tenant refuses you cant force it. The only exception is in an emergency - as in a gas leak. We had to go to court to get permission to force access to conduct a boiler repair and safety check as the tenant was refusing to co-operate.

Likewise you can write a clause in about giving access for viewings but it's not enforceable. You can ask, but if they refuse then there is nothing you can do. Zilch, nada. The tenant has paid for exclusive and private use of the property and is under no obligation to allow access for viewings - any agreement on their part is purely dependent on their goodwill and can be withdrawn at any time.

A quote from that blog post that made me outrage-laugh:

“In my experience, very few tenants live in conditions that I would deem truly “presentable.””

Hear that, fellows tenants? We’re all proper scummers, we are!

And that’s mild compared to the following paragraphs.

I don't think you are being U in being annoyed the agent expected you to say yes without even having opened the door to the bathroom. There isn't much they could have done about it but it's not a strange request to want to see one of the main rooms!

SachaStark maybe he needs to choose better tenants then, eh?
Never had a problem with ours, but then I don't get excited about people having washing up in the sink or ironing on the stairs to go up. Some agents have very funny ideas about how people should live - I'd love to see their homes and see if they abide by their own standards...

yabu
you traipsed into the tennant's home.
the tennant is no obliged to allow access into their home at all. 48 hour notice or not.

and you are not supposed to 'get a feel' about an investment.

do your numbers and let your head make a sensible decision.

@Boom45

You said if the landlord had such poor financial management they couldn't afford a month or so between tenants that was not my problem

My aunt’s house is rented out to offset the costs of her care. The care is £1500 a week. It’s not about poor financial management, it’s about needing the money for a high expense. Just because someone is renting out property doesn’t mean they’re a grasping scumbag who ought to be able to afford a shortfall.

The thing is, it's their home. I totally get why it was annoying for you, but they have to carry on with their lives. When I was leaving a property and having viewings, on one of them they couldn't view the kitchen as I had someone there fixing my washing machine. Well it's my home, and my life still goes on so...

Just ask for another viewing if No1 takes it. They often say lots are interested when they really are not.

I dont think YABU to want to go back, you can't move into a one bathroom place without seeing the bathroom

Some people just don’t get it. We had tenants who had plenty of notice and suggested the time/day for viewings then proceeds to block the kitchen with themselves and cook stinky fish whilst we showed prospective tenants around. They had served notice on us, not vice versa. They lived in their own filth and I think they just had so little awareness they hadn’t even considered how rude and uninviting they were being.

I don’t blame you for wanting a second viewing. How can you commit based on that viewing?

Those saying landlords should factor an empty month into their finances-you’re happy for them to do so by a rise in rent I presume you get that’s how supply and demand of any service works?

Also standard tenancies have a clause re allowing access for viewings, so tenants are obliged.

It's pretty common to view rentals with people in situ going about their lives. Most people don't want to vacate for the day and don't trust an agent will look out for their stuff. I've also viewed houses for sale where members of the family selling were still in bed or had doors locked.

@RhiWrites I'm sure there are lots of reasons why landlords can't manage a month without the income but it doesn't alter the fact that when a tenant signs a lease it becomes their home and multiple viewings are not something that can always be accommodated easily or that the tenant usually has any say in arranging around their life. I very rarely refused a viewing as I said but if they turned up while I was eating my tea, or had friends round, or was on my way to work then that's what they saw. If they didn't want that then they should've waited until I'd moved out. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take and as someone who's had bailiffs at the door of my rented house because my landlord couldn't afford to be a landlord I've never understood why people choose to keep hold of a property if renting it out doesn't pay enough for it to cover its costs. Your aunts care fees are not the responsibility of her tenants.

The agent runs a business, as is the landlord. Neither consider themselves social landlord with a duty to house people.

The landlord and agent priority will be to lose as little money as possible by securing the next tenancy. If demand is such that they will get a new tenant with this limited viewing, their job is done.

Yes, it's unfair that you are expected to make a significant decision about your housing with little input, but that's how it is. You have the option to only visit empty properties but cleat this will limit your search.

Tenants are never going to co operate with viewings. I would always wait until they move out and I have cleaned. AST do ask tenants to copoerate with viewings but the way half of my tenants keep the houses it wouldnt be worth it

Also standard tenancies have a clause re allowing access for viewings, so tenants are obliged.

RTFT: those clauses are not enforceable.

Those saying landlords should factor an empty month into their finances-you’re happy for them to do so by a rise in rent I presume

I presume most professional landlords already factor it in. Then the hobby landlords copy the rent rates without actually planning to use some of the money for void months.

The main problem for tenants is all the landlords who’ve bought to rent and have no clue of their responsibilities or the rights tenants have.

IME most tenants do cooperate and are perfectly fine and pleasant about it. I’ve had tenants vacate that have gone to the trouble to tell prospective tenants how nice the house and area was.

I see this one is going as usual...

you can write what you like in the contract. None of it is enforceable except by going to court which takes months. That's English tenancy law for you.

If an outgoing tenant allows viewings I consider myself most fortunate. Especially as previously it is has been an eviction job and even if it had been safe to go for a viewing, there is no way anyone would have taken it given the state it was in as it was cuckooed.

thanks to all who buy illegal drugs for that - your custom supported this. I hope you are proud.

When we sold our rental property we asked the tenant if we could carry out viewings. They gave us a couple of dates that worked for them.

In return we offered them a month’s rent at half price.

@RightEarlobeBreath

The clauses are not unenforceable, the tenant is in breach of contract for not allowing the landlord entry where it is reasonable. That said, the remedy would be to serve a section 8 notice to vacate, which as someone has said upthread, is pointless because it would take longer than just waiting for the tenant to vacate at the end of the tenancy (or whenever was agreed).

Forced entry, without the tenants consent is not permitted. Forced entry can only lawfully be exercised for an emergency covered by section 11.

So it’s not true to say it’s not enforceable or illegal. But the remedy to the landlord is pretty useless in the circumstances whilst the tenants right to quite enjoyment is better protected.

And yes, you can factor in further losses, but a loss of any sort equals higher expenditure and higher expenditure equals higher costs...

They are unenforceable. You can’t override a tenants right to quiet enjoyment with clauses about viewings. You can request a tenant allows viewings but they are within their rights to refuse no matter what the contract says.

I would say it’s worrying that a landlord thinks they can enforce this but it’s par for the course with most landlords these days. So many of them have no clue.

Hobby landlords often have higher overheads because it isn’t as tax efficient to have properties in a personal name vs a company... So not sure how they’d justify charging less in rent

As explained, they’re not unenforceable just the remedy isn’t much use in practical terms. I suppose another example could be a tenant refusing a reasonable request for access mid tenancy, for non essential repairs or maintenance. In that instance you could serve a section 8.