AIBU to think you can feel someone’s thoughts without them saying anything?

[Iwillsleepin2020]

Not sure if I can articulate this question very well...but I read lots of threads where people are unreasonable and crazy, eg. alcoholic mothers telling their children they’re disappointed in them and have never loved them. Clear as day crazy behaviour.

The problem I’m having is what about when behaviour isn’t verbal or physical? I have a difficult relationship with my MIL and am now very low contact. She has never really directly said anything to me that is unreasonable. It’s more how she makes me feel. If I’m holding DC she isn’t the type of MIL you read about who comes and grabs the baby, but instead I’m aware that she is wanting to hold DC and giving off a sad feeling..? If we’re sat around the table and myself and DH talk about a future plan of ours, I am aware that she is disapproving. She doesn’t say anything and I can’t actually think what it is that she does that means I know she’s feeling that way. I am also aware of her watching me all the time, looking at my reactions etc. I know when she asks a seemingly innocent question like ‘does your mum sing to DC?’ it’s actually a loaded question, full of anxiety about comparisons between GPs. I know I sound like a lunatic even writing this. DH does see this in her too, which reassures me.

But has anyone else experienced this? What do you call this? Is it toxic or should I just take a deep breath and tolerate her company? I feel very intimidated by her and suffocated in her company, despite the fact she has not really been blatantly rude or disrespectful towards me. If anything, she makes a real show out of appearing very reasonable and kind towards me, which further adds to my discomfort! It seems at odds with how she makes me feel.

Thanks for reading

With the example of waiting for baby to be handed to her you’re understanding body language. It’s instinct, the things we can read and communicate without language.

With the questions when she actually means something else - my mum does this, i tell her all the time to just say what she actually means or wants. It’s usually so she doesn’t come across as the ‘bad guy’ but usually what she wants or wants to know isn’t an issue anyway. But really, if there’s a label needed I suppose we feel like it’s manipulation.

I know what you mean but I also think you need to recognise that you may be misreading her. I would name it when you feel like it and see what she says. Even if she doesn’t admit it then you’ll probably know from her reaction and she might check herself for future interactions. If genuinely you’re misreading her then you will be able to sort out some of your differences

I think it's totally normal for there to be a disparity between how people behave or what they say and how they actually feel. This is how humans carry on half the time! The writer Norman Mailer once said that when two men say hello to each other on the street, one of them always loses .

She might be very sensitive or even anxious; ime this can often be the case with people who seem intimidating or standoffish on the surface. I personally probably wouldn't call her on it. It's good your DH sees it too. She does seem to care about your dc which is also good. Could she be the kind of person who struggles to share her feelings and ends up isolated or lonely as a result?

I don’t think I have the courage to call her out on it and I’m fairly sure the response would be that I’m misinterpreting her. So I don’t know where that would leave us, as it wouldn’t stop the feeling that I get around her.

She is certainly a very anxious person but also struggles with empathy. This seems at odds with me, because I have always thought that anxiety is usually paired with quite strong empathy? I think it’s the mismatch of things like this which leads me to feel so wary. I really don’t know which is the real her and whether she is just severely misunderstood.

Meant to say this seems at odds to me, not with me

Sounds like you’re reading her like a book. You’re probably very sensitive and empathetic and these tiny non verbal ‘tells’ are like bugle calls to you, alerting you to the dynamic.

However if she never expresses her real feelings feel free to ignore. Carry on as normal. If you sense her wanting to hold the baby, but she isn’t asking (someone who can communicate in a non-loaded, non-manipulative way would ask “Would it be ok for me to have a cuddle in a minute?” And you could answer yes or no, she’s sleeping etc) - then blithely ignore. Just carry on. Sail past all her tells and hints and sighs and looks and body language. Just totally breeze by. She isn’t communicating clearly and until she does, ignore and carry on with your day and your business.

I had this with exdp's mother. I couldn't put my finger on it and eventually I put the year of awkwardness aside and really tried to create a bond. Which I believed went well, I must of misunderstood her and should of had more understanding of her situation as a mother.

Well nope I was right she was an arsehole. She didn't like me one bit, and was very jealous that her dp attention was directed at another women and even her gc.

I think that many of these women have learnt through the years not to say what they mean or have an actual conversation about issues so instead sit in the fence acting as if they are the victim. And you cannot win with this because nothing is actually said.

Do your best to ignore her because it will only look like you have a problem.

You should go into clairvoyance. I'm not being sarcy.
It's intuitiveness.

Look in to transactional analysis and the idea of ulterior transactions . It's been an eye opener for me. I know some people think 'narcissist'is overused on MN (I just think there are a LOT of people with significant narc traits around) but also look at info on covert narcissists and see if any of it resonates.

It isn't 'feeling thoughts' it's just communicating like every other mammal. It's only because people rely on verbal communication so much we forget about body language etc.

That said, humans can be a bit crap at body language. Interpretation can be wrong, and sometimes people can be covering their true meaning with a more obvious, but inaccurate appearance. Intentionally or subconsciously.

I think you should think about why you are dedicating so much attention to her non-verbal signals, body language, etc. It's perfectly possible to ignore those the way you would ignore someone talking nonsense or verbally claiming your attention.

That’s very interesting @Graciebutterfly. I’ve spent about 8 years trying to look past it and build a positive relationship. It’s only in the last year, when we had our DC, that I’ve really struggled being in her company. It’s as though her intensity exploded.

I appreciate everyone’s advice on how to cope. I don’t feel it’s something I can ignore anymore though. It’s a tight feeling in my stomach, I can feel her eyes on me all the time and I can almost feel waves of pressure from her across the room. It feels like she’s constantly trying to get into my space. I am probably describing anxiety symptoms no? And sound even more loony.

I guess what I’m asking is can you justifiably reduce contact with someone who, whether deliberately or unintentionally, makes you feel this way? Like some PP have said, verbalising it will just make me look bonkers, because she can deny (perhaps truthfully) being aware of any behaviour that would make me uncomfortable.

Will look into those things @Griefmonster, thank you

She can't change how she feels about something. If you discuss a plan which she doesn't approve of, and she doesn't say anything, isn't that good? It's very difficult not to let your thoughts leak into your body language, but the fact she's holding in her thoughts and not criticising you is something to feel pleased about, not something to call her out on.

Sounds like you’re reading her like a book. You’re probably very sensitive and empathetic and these tiny non verbal ‘tells’ are like bugle calls to you, alerting you to the dynamic.

OR, an equally valid and more likely explanation is that OP is projecting her own insecurities onto her MIL.

There's no way to tell you whether you're right OP, but given you have zero evidence are you really sure about this? Could you not be projecting a bit, or feeling anxious? Have you spoken to your DH?

Maybe she's picking up on your negative feelings and this is making her anxious. Do you think you could talk to her about how you feel and try to understand how she feels. It would be a shame to distance yourself and this is probably making it worse for the times you do see each other.

You can go low contact but you either need your dp on board or you need to work hard at covering the time she would spend with you with hood excuses and be prepared for the poor her replies.

She will get vocal when she has got proof you are pushing her out. And she will work on other to make you the bad one.

That's only if she is playing victim but I believe we know theses things inside.

Dp's mother gave him an Ultimatum 9 days after I gave birth. He was to involve her more or never speak to her again. I actually pushed him to make up with her and get her involved.
As they had never fell out with each other but there was thing issue between them.

Funny thing is = it was me and ds.
Now she supports him not having contact with ds as raising a dc effects his MH and job lol
Op I know your situation isn't near as bad as mind, but be very careful.
These things don't end well when you try to fight them.

You may be highly intuitive...this may explain better:

introvertdear.com/news/the-difference-between-introverts-empaths-and-highly-sensitive-people/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=IntrovertDear

Yes, I also think you are projecting your own insecurities on her.

Anyway, I think if someone has a thought but knows it's wrong/silly so tries to express the opposite, I think that's quite fair. We can't help our thoughts but we can help our behaviour.

Say you are talking about a future plan, and she hears it and thinks "That doesn't sound like a good idea. But it isn't my business and it would be rude and pointless to say anything". So she says it's fine, although a micro expression detrays her disapproval. What's wrong with that? Take her at her word. You can't be the thought police.

Havelock - that is a concern of mine. That’s why I doubt whether it is possible to feel so strongly what she thinks. DH has experienced the same from her. The feeling of sadness, the questions etc. It’s this that tells me I can’t be completely projecting. I also don’t know why I would be so insecure around her if that was the case...it would have to come from something? I work in a job where I meet different people every day, have to build a rapport from scratch, often have to form quite intimate and trusting relationships quickly. I wouldn’t say I’m a socially awkward person, but that’s how I feel when I’m with her.

@MereDintofPandiculation I agree that it would be healthy. There have been a few times though where things have been ‘said’ through FIL or through comments to my DH (years ago and he has since put a stop to that). So there has been some history of manipulation which I guess lends me to feel suspicious.

Sounds like you’re reading her like a book. You’re probably very sensitive and empathetic and these tiny non verbal ‘tells’ are like bugle calls to you, alerting you to the dynamic

Yup- this. There are lots of visualisations you can do to stop negative energy from others affecting you- google it, it often involves imagining a blue light around you etc

Other than that, stop absorbing her crap. Notice her reactions and acknowledge them but don’t allow them to infect you with emotional responses. Just observe them without judgement. Eg “look at that- I can tell she’s annoyed, how interesting” acknowledge what you notice but let it go instantly and don’t attach an emotion to it (eg guilt or whatever). You need to start separating her behaviour from your emotions. Use affirmations in your head if it helps eg “her feelings are not my responsibility” etc etc