To think apart from mortgage it is possible to live debt free!?

[Moneytalkone]

Just that really, AIBU to think that it is possible to live debt free, that debt isn’t a necessity in life! Apart from a mortgage I suppose if you want to own a house. Had a chat with a friend who claimed that debt is given these days, it’s almost an accepted/expected part of life? What do you think?

No. I’ve never had to worry about/consider money.

But some of us HAVE been in that position and have still managed to get by without debt. I lived paycheque to paycheque for several years in a dingy mould-infested flat. We couldn't afford to put the heating on often enough to kill the mould so it kept returning. We also couldn't afford a dryer so we had to dry clothes on airers which didn't help the situation. Often couldn't afford food and went to bed early because it was too cold to do anything else. Ex-DP and I spent lots of weeks prior to paydays living off stale bread and value beans because it's all we could afford.

I did worry about money. I worried about not being able to pay the bills. I worried when we had to move into the living room and get a flatmate because we couldn't afford the rent even with two of us working. I was even more worried when said flatmate had debt and had bailiffs knocking on our door.

I never got into debt, though. Just struggled on what we had. We had no savings, our washing machine, fridge and freezer were all rented as we couldn't afford the outright cost of even a cheap second-hand one.

Hear hear @WireBrushAndDettolMaam

This is the thing .... for everyone breezily stating 'of course it is' (in response to the original question about living debt free) please stop and think for a moment that your circumstances, your location, your health, your qualifications, your support network, your opportunities, your relationships etc (not just now, but in the past as well, all the twists and turns of life which have led you to where you are now) are never going to be the same as anyone else's situation. It's effectively saying 'if I can do it anyone can' which is very narrow minded and dismissive.

I think we all agree it's irresponsible to take on debt for non essentials if you're not confident about paying it back comfortably. More fool anyone who puts themselves under financial pressure if they don't need to. But it's a horrid, arguably inhumane, fact of modern life that increasing numbers literally have no choice but to go into debt because they're simply not paid enough to save for a rainy day. Or indeed to live adequately on a normal day. All the 'making do', e.g. 'putting up with' a crappy old kitchen or a threadbare carpet doesn't help if you need - right there and then - transport into work.

God some people really are stupid! Some people are stupid with money and get onto debt other people (those fleeing domestic violence is one example amongst many) have no choice.

Some people posting here are so either desperately insecure and need to feel superior or are just deeply nasty and deliberately ignorant. I imagine lots of you are both.

It doesn’t make you a better person (unless you’re insecure enough to need to be told you are...) to be debt free. It means you’ve had the ability to remain so.

But that ability isn't just down to luck! It's often down to people making difficult choices and sacrificing certain things in life to avoid spiralling into debt.

But that ability isn't just down to luck! It's often down to people making difficult choices and sacrificing certain things in life to avoid spiralling into debt

Then we disagree.

it totally is. Not even a mortgage. no credit cards, no payday loans, no buy now, pay later. Still enough for holidays and treats.

Then we disagree.

So do you think everything in life is down to luck, then?

Or do people's choices come into it? Hard work? Sacrifices they may or may not have made to get to where they are? The decision to maybe put off having children until later, the decision to only buy second hand, the decision to eat at home rather than go out? They're not valid choices that people make in order to become more financially secure?

Or do people's choices come into it? Hard work? Sacrifices they may or may not have made to get to where they are? The decision to maybe put off having children until later, the decision to only buy second hand, the decision to eat at home rather than go out? They're not valid choices that people make in order to become more financially secure?

Lucky enough to have the privilege of choice?

Saying you’re lucky doesn’t negate hard work. Although many people seem to get really antsy about that.

Why do you care if it’s down to luck or hard work? It doesn’t change your value as a person.

I'm 33. My only debt is my mortgage. I've got £200 on my credit card but have savings which could pay that off straight away. It is possible.

But that ability isn't just down to luck! It's often down to people making difficult choices and sacrificing certain things in life to avoid spiralling into debt

I agree with this, there are times we could have taken on debt for situations most would think there was a necessity, but we didn't.
Not because we are holier than thou, or think there's something wrong with debt, it just wasn't for us.
Being self employed and low income for one thing we couldn't rely on the ability to pay it back.
I fear debt, tbh. It's not a case of being lucky not to need it, it's not taking it when needed and striving to do without it.

As I say not better than any other choice, but it's invariably a choice, usually linked to perceived lifestyle.
I prefer to be happy and not worry about money, I do this by owing nothing, apart from very low mortgage.
I live by Macawber ruling

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."

If you have a credit card I hate to break it to you but that is debt, you owe that money and are not debt free.
Even if you pay it off within the month, you are still in debt.
Why are people saying they aren't?

Lucky enough to have the privilege of choice?

Lots of people can make different choices, they just choose not to.

There's nothing wrong with being lucky, of course not, but it does belittle those people who have worked damn hard to get where they are when people just say "oh, it's luck and nothing to do with any of the choices you've made".

It doesn't change my value as a person but I think sometimes people like their hard work to be acknowledged. I sacrificed a lot to get where I am today, as did DH. When people say to me "oh, it's lucky that you managed to buy before you hit thirty, isn't it?" it's like they're ignoring all the work I did to get myself into that position.

You say yourself you've never had to worry about money, so it clearly wouldn't bother you in the same way it would bother someone who has had that worry over their head.

Of course it's generally down to luck!

15 years ago I'd have been one of the ones sitting there saying, well you should have saved, don't buy things you can't afford etc etc.

But a few job losses later, redundancy, illness, an accident which cost us £3k and is still going through the courts..doesn't take a genius to see that your savings can run out and your 'LUCK" can change massively.

Once you're in debt, it's bloody hard to get out of it.

I hate this patronising attitude by people lucky enough never to have had to experience it.

A mortgage is a debt (a huge one at that!) so I’m not sure why you’re ignoring it. Students loans are another one that most people have. Car finance is another. It’s pretty much unavoidable unless you had help paying for university and you earn enough to buy a car and house in cash or just choose not to have them.

"So what happens when you’ve been made redundant, you can’t find new work and the savings have run out. Redundancy insurance will pay your mortgage but it won’t buy you food or heat or electric. What do you do then? You’ve no income, no savings left. You have nothing in the bank. You’ve applied for universal credit but it doesn’t come through for 6 weeks. What do you do for 6 weeks?"
I chose a career where I know there is usually vacancies. I also have other skills to fall back on. When made redundant, I registered with agencies and was prepared to do lower level work if I had to. I also still had savings. Happened to me 3 times Been fine 3 times, didnt need to take out loans. I'm a planner, always have been. I have contingency plans for all eventualities. It's when people dont plan, that they become unstuck.

If you have a credit card I hate to break it to you but that is debt, you owe that money and are not debt free

So if I have £2k on my credit card and £10k in savings I'm in debt am I?

Even though I make hundreds of pounds a year in profit from my credit cards, they give me protection for when suppliers go bust or fail to deliver (ie Monarch) and they are also useful when I have to pay out £££s in work expenses that will take a couple of weeks to be reimbursed? Plus they allow me to use cheaper hire car suppliers who require a credit card and lots of other reasons.

It doesn't change my value as a person but I think sometimes people like their hard work to be acknowledged. I sacrificed a lot to get where I am today, as did DH. When people say to me "oh, it's lucky that you managed to buy before you hit thirty, isn't it?" it's like they're ignoring all the work I did to get myself into that position

But why does it need acknowledgement is my point I guess.

We bought when I was 21 and ex-DH 18. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest whether people assume its through luck/hard work.

Same with my business. Makes no difference to me whether people think I work hard or not!

If your DS is in finance then he'll also know that he could lose his job for checking your credit rating without your permission.

There isn't such a thing as one central credit rating. There are factual credit histories held by various ratings providers who log payment histories from various lenders and other info like your existence on the electoral roll etc. You can access each provider's history of you and have any inaccuracies corrected.

Lenders will usually use one of these agencies to decide whether you are the risk profile they are interested in providing credit to.

A mortgage is a debt (a huge one at that!) so I’m not sure why you’re ignoring it

Yes, you'd be in a pretty bad position if you lost the job that paid a big mortgage and couldn't find another well paid job before the savings/insurance ran out.

I appreciate I was lucky to be able to buy in a cheap area but I did move seven hours away from where I was brought up (SE) to be able to do that. Our deposit was 5k and our monthly repayments are £300. £300 a month where I was raised wouldn't have paid for a bedsit. So I moved to somewhere I could afford to buy
Unfortunately the south east still needs teachers, nurses, lower paid admin staff, supermarket workers etc.....as you are well aware the cost of living is screwing them over

But that ability isn't just down to luck! It's often down to people making difficult choices and sacrificing certain things in life to avoid spiralling into debt.

It'd be ridiculous to suggest that making responsible financial choices isn't a good thing. I agree that when you have choices - even if they're difficult, it's worth making them if it means avoiding debt and the interest, and stress, that accompanies it.

But not everyone has an actual choice, difficult or not. Sometimes there is literally just one thing you can do .... in order to keep your job, or to flee from an abusive relationship, or to feed your kids.

We all make financial choices - when we can based on various criteria such as our past experience of a given situation, our own research, our family responsibilities, professional advice and so on. I appreciate there'll always be a reckless minority who don't think things through but not everyone falls into that category. For those of us who've made 'sensible' choices and sacrifices, and have benefited from doing so, then we've been lucky not to have been adversely affected by things we couldn't have predicted. No-one has a crystal ball and even with the most cautious, well thought out approach to money, people are knocked sideways by unexpected illness, accident, the collapse of their employer, the birth of a child with disabilities, redundancy, relationships which gradually become abusive and so on.

So yes, it's disingenuous to dismiss 'luck' in all of this. People's lives are different. What can be shouldered and managed in one household won't necessarily be manageable in another regardless of how responsible they've been with their finances.

But why does it need acknowledgement is my point I guess.

I think a lot of people like their hard work to be acknowledged. You may not, and that's fine, but other people do.

It's not an "either/or" situation regarding luck and hard work.

You can work as hard as you like but have bad luck, where everything breaks down, or you become ill, or have an accident, or lose your job - and suddenly your hard work becomes irrelevant as you have no income but still have to pay bills.

You can equally get away with not working so hard but have really good luck, in terms of being born into well-off families, getting a great job, having great health and never having to worry about money.

And there is a ton of other options in between.

Neither hard work, nor being lucky, are bad things. One is down to you and what you do, and the other is down to circumstances around you and it's a combination of BOTH of these that decides in the end whether you will be able to stay out of debt.

Of course good choices help - and poor choices don't - but they still don't really affect luck. I know some people will say "you make your own luck" but you don't - you create your own opportunities, but that isn't luck. Luck is about having opportunities fall into your lap, or meeting someone who can open a door for you that otherwise you wouldn't have had access to.

What can be shouldered and managed in one household won't necessarily be manageable in another regardless of how responsible they've been with their finances.

Absolutely, but that doesn't mean the person who have managed to get out of debt/poor situations by working hard and making good choices shouldn't be acknowledged for that. One persons misfortune shouldn't diminish other people's success.

I have no debt whatsoever , no mortgage or any other form of credit. It is easily possible if you have a certain attitude whereby you don't Buy anything you cannot afford to pay for outright. For example we have our own house but it has been furnished with interesting pieces from local second hand shops. We are frugal but still enjoy life. We are not materialistic and have limited amounts of clothing that we buy to last. It helps that we live right on the coast with plenty to do right here.