2 strollers per bus

[GingerBeverage]

How many times have you been told you can't get on a bus because there are already 2 strollers on board?
I'd have thought that any analysis of London bus users would highlight that people with strollers are some of the biggest users of the service.
Would it be SO terrible to have a little more space for us, and for wheelchair users?

@UndertheCedartree
Thank you. You Sound very thoughtful and considerate of others.
Having the device will be life-changing. I'm looking into second-hand ones too, but the resale value is still pretty high.
I had an issue with an elderly lady once with a shopper trolley in the wheelchair bay. She refused to move it or fold it.
Apparently, I should have thought more before opening my legs. I'm not sure what her point was as if still be in the wheelchair - with or without the baby! Some people are deliberately awkward and enjoy making life for others difficult.

Merryweather, have you approached charities to help with the costs?

And yes those 4x4's buggies are a nuisance on the bus. They either stick out way too much into the aisle or take up the entire wheelchair space. SOME parents trip over themselves in trying to justify why they feel entitled to use the space that was never designed for them but offered as a courtesy. Yet ironically, parents of disabled children seem to avoid these tanks and go for something more mobile.

After seeing the abuse that some drivers have had when asking a pushchair user to vacate/fold up I can see why they are reluctant to enforce it.

I do remember as well when they were first being introduced a friend with a disabled baby having grief for getting on the bus. No tank buggy, just a regular buggy with oxygen and feed machine. Hence I'm a big supporter of having an extra card to say basically fuck off I'm entitled to use the space. Or something like the Daisy lanyard. Something that says to the driver space is needed instead of carrying a letter around like friend used to do, even though with the tank it should have been obvious. Not something like the radar key however that can be bought anywhere. And for short-term issues such as spd, the card is valid say for a year. Could also be rolled out for the priority seating, so that the person who looks fine, but needs priority seating don't get harassed by other passengers to move.

If there are any campaigns to get the space properly protected please let me know.

Or maybe when the next lot of buses are designed, they can be done in a way that closes off the area and only gets opened by driver/pass.

I'm not saying parents shouldn't be on buses. Just like we did before the spaces were introduced parents would have to think about how they travel. If I couldn't think about the logistics I would have been fucked, 3 under 5, double buggy and one with autism and adhd, and internet shopping wasn't a thing.
Was it easy? No, but it was doable even with a weekly shop and all the extra crap you carry around.

It's a long time since I potty trained mine, when they were ready accidents outside were few and far between and only needed to bung in a spare pair of trackie bottoms and pants per child (at one point 2 were training at the same time).

@Merryweather80 - should have thought about opening your legs! How ridiculous!

the whinging"why should I have to get off if a wheelchair user needs the space" proves that mummies think they have a right to it.
Except that was one self entitled person vs God knows how many move, Inc Peabody whose child has suspected ASD and who has physical difficulties herself and is when DS was in his chair. The only time I wouldn't have moved was if there was no where to collapse it (basically folds in half) and we were en route to hospital. If I can ban every pensioner or their trolley because of the rude ones I encounter in the wheelchair space / pushing to the front of the queue / blocking the aisle then why should all buggies be banned?

Empower driver by law to protect that space. It won't take that many incidents of drivers refusing to move and call security out for people to get it. People push it because they know drivers will cave.

even though with the tank it should have been obvious.!
Ha you'd think. Went to push DS on in his chair, o2 tubes taped to face. Driver half a mile from the curb said he couldn't put down the ramp as it wasn't for people like me

That's why I'm in support of having a lanyard/card system Sleeping. Drivers just see a buggy trying to use the space and become arsey.

Lots of drivers have refused to move. They get hurled abuse at not only from buggy users but also other passengers for holding them up. Police have enough to deal with as it is.

I suspect that the entitlement came from seeing buggies on the buses and parents thought oh great, not understanding that babies are born with additional needs and have additional equipment to travel with.

The current system doesn't work and hopefully, the bus companies will have the sense to not make the whole lower deck accessible for buggies. Such a move would prevent way more people from travelling.

Or maybe the could do one buggy bus every hour or so. A bus that is designed for parents, leaving the main buses free for those entitled to space and of course other passengers.

And bring back luggage space under the stairs.

Maybe they should charge for a non folded buggies?

There are fold down seats in the disabled bays on my local buses, I have seen able bodied people refuse to move out of these to let a wheelchair user on. sometimes its not even people with buggies refusing to move, its people with shopping or who don't want to stand. the bus drivers here do move them but that then takes time and often isn't pleasant.

I don't drive so rely on buses, when mine were small I had a fold down stroller, with a back pack on it for shopping and I practised at home (with a teddy instead of baby coz I was scared I'd drop him) until I could put it down with one hand, Ok I looked an absolute tit when DH asked what I was doing but I never once had to wait for a different bus.

My late MIL used the fold down seats, she had a failed hip replacement and the other seats were impossible to use, I can't remember what it was about the fold down seats that helped but they did. She had so much abuse from people with buggies she eventally had a letter from the bus company saying she was entitled to use the seats.

Staggered me that people could be aggressive and abusive to a woman of nearly 80 who clearly had difficulty walking and was suffering from cancer making her look very frail and vulnerable. She was strong mentally though and stood up to them.

Or maybe the could do one buggy bus every hour or so you know people with buggies have actual places to go and lives to live we don't just roam the buses looking to piss people off?
Our appt tomorrow is 11.10, so will catch 10.40 bus. If thr special bus ran on the hour I'd need to catch the 10 am so I'd need to catch the first bus at 9.30, which again of was on the hour would be tbe 9 am bus. So you're at least doubling my 60 minute journey with a 4 yo and 1 month old twins, and same again at 4 pm when we leave. I'm a parent with a buggy, not a second class citizen for goodness sake.

And before anyone says wheelchair users regularly have to allow twice as long to go anywhere, I've clearly said I'm in favour or stronger action and sanctions.

Treat us like adults and punish those eho don't abide by the rules.

Lots of drivers have refused to move. They get hurled abuse at not only from buggy users but also other passengers for holding them up.

I must admit when I've seen a driver do that round here it has been very affective. The passengers all supported the driver.

Maybe they should charge for a non folded buggies?
This could only work if there was somewhere to put a folded buggy. But I don't agree with it as it discriminates against disabled parents who can't fold.

@1forsorrow - having hip problems myself - I think it's because they tend to be higher so easier to sit on and get up again. That's awful she suffered abuse.

Doesn't have to be every hour. Just a suggestion. Maybe if bus companies started talking about the idea, then it would give the piss takers a swift kick up their entitled arses. Anyone who wants to be a decent person can still travel as long as the pushchair is folded up.

Or maybe they can do like wheelchair users did before they successfully got the space, and well still have to now knowing they cannot get a space on the bus and take cabs.

Ohh a fine for non-folding buggies. Love that one as long as obviously they don't have medical reasons for using the space.

And a pass/lanyard would also protect those who need the fold-down seats even though they look visibly able.

@ffswhatnext
I had no idea there were any that would or could!
Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
Thanks x
@UndertheCedartree
Exactly! Apparently, disabled people shouldn't have children - according to her. I can laugh now at the ridiculousness of her comment. At the time I welled up. X

Anyone who wants to be a decent person can still travel as long as the pushchair is folded up. except I'm a decent person and still can't reasonably fold up my double buggy, stow two car seats whilst I do so then find space for me, the base, the 4 yo and aforementioned 2 car seats. All whilst the bus moves OR everyone huffs nad puffs over the time. Car seats on the floor where people can trip over them, the dogs can sniff them, people swinging the bags around them, or taking up several seats to balance the car seats on there?

Or you know, use the space whilst I can and accept if I can't I need to get off. Like the vast majority of people do.

It isn't OK to discriminate against any other "type" of person due to the g freehand of a few so no, I shouldn't have to catch a special bus or pay £40 to take my twins with me to the hospital (a previous suggestion was £10 a go)

And yeah yeah back in the old days or mothers had it harder so mothers now should but no one every thinks that regarding anything else. No one offering to give up their technology and scrub the clothes by hand I see? Replace the plug in iron or abolish the microwave, outlaw premade baby food anyone?

Anyone who wants to be a decent person can still travel as long as the pushchair is folded up
I wasn't able to fold sometimes due to my disability. It didn't mean I wasn't a decent person. I would get off if a wheelchair user needed the space.

Are regular bus users now using car seats? Have companies also stopped designed the from-birth lie-flat ones? If they are only making these huge none collapsable, heavy, gazillion hands needed to fold, then parents should be complaining to them to go back to systems that were designed for the purpose or being able to be used. At least I had the privilege I suppose of having a twin buggy that was in front of each other, could go easily through doors and folded to drag onto the bus 🤣

Only times we used a car was a black cab. And yes I wash some clothes by hand, also have done for weeks in-between washing machines. I don't own a microwave or iron. You are actually being ridiculous tbh. I don't understand why you're being so defensive about protecting the wheelchair space when you are a considerate traveller. Surely you agree that the current free for all isn't working because it wasn't designed to have everyone use the space.

Hence the implementation of a lanyard or pass @underthecedartree. It would allow those entitled to the space access, rather than the current free for all, cross your fingers and hope either the bus driver gets involved or the adult realises they have to shift their asses.

And as we know they are SOME able-bodied people out there who couldn't give a damn that the person entitled to use the space has waited at the bus stop watching multiple buses go by.

I will always support any campaign to get the area protected for the group of people who worked hard, and are still working hard, to get better transport access. It doesn't matter if that person is an adult or baby. If you as the person, or a career meet the requirements then use the space.

@Merryweather80
There are quite a few charities that will help depending on various factors.
A quick google will bring up loads for your area.
As well as electric chairs there are charities aimed specifically at those with disabilities and their families for help with furniture, respite and holidays etc.
I'd start with giving you some ideas, unfortunately, my list is only aimed at children and their families. Fortunately for the moment, since he's turned adult, haven't needed help, and since leaving working in SN I haven't updated that list.

@ffs - I agree with your points it was just the suggestion that someone who doesn't fold isn't a decent person.

@ffswhatnext - and I don't think I should have been entitled to the wheelchair space as it is for those in wheelchairs - they are the people who have fought for the place - as at the end of the day I have more options than someone in a wheelchair. But I was very appreciative of being able to use the space if a wheelchair user wasn't using it during my journey.

@Underthecedartree
If I was to create the lanyard system you would still be able to use the space anyway as there wouldn't be a separate system for priority seating. So someone say with spd would be given for example access for a year.
Something universal so it covers you whether you are on the bus, tube, tram or train.

We are very lucky here to have wheelchair access on buses. I travel a lot and many countries are still way behind in this area.

Are regular bus users now using car seats? Have companies also stopped designed the from-birth lie-flat ones? I had the privilege I suppose of having a twin buggy that was in front of each other, could go easily through doors and folded to drag onto the bus
Babies are in car seat attachment on my pram, an in front of each other one like yours. No lie flat bassinet cos the options were the ones where the 2nd kid is in the dark and I hate them or side by side and then it's too wide for anything.

And I'm defensive cos not every mom on the bus who can't collapse their buggy isn't a worthless piece of shit who laughs in tbe face of people with disabilities.

When DS was in his special chair, we'd collapse it for a pushchair user if we could, and now the regular twins are in a regular buggy I know it means getting off. Like most parents on the bus, that's what I'd do. I don't need treating like an idiot and being told I'm not allowed on the bus because people like me are disablist scum who should be confined to my own bus, made to walk or charged extra to "enjoy" the and access to services as you

I don't understand why parents can collapse the pushchair as most people used to years ago, putting a newborn/ young baby in a carrying sling

My back couldn't manage one, let alone two.

@whattodo2019 people either would of thry had to, or thry walk, or they'd not go out. But in every aspe t of life we celebrate making life easier for people, making things more accessible. Until it comes to Mom's with buggies, those awful people for whom we couldn't have any greater contempt, sitting all day on the bus as thry do with op purpose but to ruin the days of other people.

It's not all parents. It's the ones who are physically able to fold up yet don't. It's the ones that stay in the space. It's the ones who leave the buggy up yet empty. It's the ones who still push their way through onto a bus that already has someone in the wheelchair area thus blocking the gangway, stairs and the back door, and people having to squeeze past or stay crammed at the front of the bus, triggering the please move to the back of the bus or seating is available upstairs announcement.

A big difference between those and people who are considerate. If more people put pressure onto them, then the current system could survive because it would go back to how it first was. Everyone moved if a wheelchair user was getting on. Now, however, some point-blank refuse to move, and it's not just a handful of people. It's those people who need tackling, just like anyone else who abuses a system in such a way.

If bus companies started to tackle the issue to prevent this from happening, then crowd pressure could get those who are selfish to buck up their ideas and move.

And no-one has called you a worthless piece of shit or disablist scum. If I have missed those posts then I apologise, name them and I will also report them.

However, I can see it going another way. Bus companies of course monitor who uses them. They see how many wheelchair users are using the service, doesn't matter that they've been waiting at the bus stop for an hour. They see the numbers and think hang on, realistically we could get away with reducing the number of accessible buses. Thus increasing our profit margins by going back to more seats on the lower decks. You might think I'm crazy, but I'm sure everyone said the same about Boris, Brexit, bendybuses and Trump. If the protected space comes under EU not UK law, then this can very easily happen. Then we are back in sad times that prevent those with disabilities from leaving their homes unless staying local or affording taxis all the time.