Benefits fraud- what is the general feeling about it?

[Hadtoask]

I have changed my name and I’m posting with trepidation! I really am aware that I might sound heartless and mean. I will not be reporting this person but Im just interested to hear how other people feel about this. People may be very horrible to me and in this case I won’t be back! Sorry but not brave enough for an onslaught.

I won’t do the dreaded drip feed but I will have to be vague about a few details because I wouldn’t want the family identified.

So- a family I know had all their children removed from their care by the courts some years ago. They were a very large family. It is a permanent situation and the children will not be returning to their birth parents.

Despite many years passing the parents are still receiving benefits and tax credits for all of the children.

On the one hand I feel it’s really sloppy administration and makes a mockery of the benefits system. The tax payers are paying a lot of money in support for this family who are all in foster care. As well as supporting the parents who are on benefits. And now it’s come to light that there are tax credits paid to the parents for all of the children too.

I also feel that in some ways it’s probably this money that is holding their mother back from working. I feel she would really benefit from the structure and satisfaction of working. She has always claimed benefits and has never really stood on her own feet. She’s 40 ish.

On the other hand I feel that having lost her children she is very needy and this money will be very important to her. I can’t begrudge her anything because I feel extremely sorry for her.

I would not report this family but I definitely feel conflicted. I wonder how often this sort of thing goes on whilst there are people struggling to claim what they need.

Apologies if I sound really awful and mean. I’m just surprised at this situation and the money is not going to good use. I know this but cannot give details for risk of identifying them.

Mums net is clearly full of benefit fraudsters due to the amount of defenders of them on here ! Plus all these posters in working hours!

Plus all these posters in working hours!

Yeah, absolutely. It's not like some work shifts, permanent nights or weekends so they have their days off during the week. Or indeed get annual leave, or breaks.

Ok I’m back to the discussion because it’s interesting and I started it so shouldn’t be cowardly. I don’t like to receive abuse even if it’s anonymous- if that makes me immature that’s fine.

For the couple of people insisting I don’t know this family and don’t know what they get and what they spend their money on etc. All I can say to that is from my post it should be clear that I do know this. If you’re still baffled I can’t help you with that.

@MushroomTree this is a very similar situation to the one you describe. The parents feel that as they are the real parents then they should get the benefits. It’s come to light now (with me) because the eldest has got to an age where there is a need to prove they are in education. Mum can’t do this so will only claim for all the others. It’s been many years now.

I also agree with the person who said that this family clearly deserve services/ money. They do need help most definitely but this money is not the answer. The reason I say this is because I feel working gives you purpose and self esteem as well as allowing you to socialise. I feel in this case the benefits money may be holding them back.

@busybarbara I really agree with you too. This is a desperate case.

Part of what frustrates me about it all is that now I know they have had this substantial amount of money they have still not managed themselves at all. With their income they really should be straightening themselves a bit. This shows nothing has changed and I wonder what more could be done. Examples are no bills paid, being chased for money owed to various people/companies.

There are not addiction or health issues. It’s more a dependency on the state. I have tried to help the mum a lot but she doesn’t want my help.

To the person who said they’d hate to be my friend- very fine by me.

So if you want to help, you need to support and encourage. That’s it

@Hadtoask it's been two years since the children were removed from the woman I know.

It was frustrating knowing the circumstances of some of the other women I work with who can't afford to feed themselves and their children and yet this woman was claiming for children not in her care and spending her days shopping, getting her nails done etc. No reason why she can't work.

And when we tried to explain she wasn't entitled to the benefits we were very aggressively accused of saying she wasn't a mother. She just didn't get it.

@Inliverpool yes that’s what I try to do. But it’s hard after so many years seeing someone stuck. I’m hopeful for her still. I’m just worried that she isn’t managing at all. Even with an income. That’s why I was so shocked yesterday. It wasn’t so much the fraud. It was the realisation that there has been this amount of money available and not used properly (I know that’s judgy but I know specific things that could have been done with that amount of money).
I’m not an unkind person at all. I will still try to support and encourage. But my advice about working might not be useful. I’m not sure if tax credits would be stopped if the parents were officially working.

Just because you think she's needy and you feel sorry for her, is no reason not to report her. It's theft

You are right green but I couldn’t bring more problems for her. I’m just surprised it’s not been picked up. When so many struggle to get what they need and some of us are chased for every last penny. It’s obviously a loophole.

I have conflicting issues about benefit fraud in all honesty.

Someone on benefits with kids doing a few hours of work for cash in hand doesn’t bother me in all honesty and I can see why some people do it because to work and not be better off is pointless if your quite poor already.

It’s the people that used to claim DLA (now PIP) and ESA when there’s fuck all wrong with them is what bothers me.

Nowadays it’s not as easy to get PIP but it used to be and with ESA you could claim it for a good while before you had to go for a medical with the DLA assessor.

When I was on heroin then there was so many addicts that claimed ESA through their habits and claimed depression (addictions make you depressed) and I always used to think that alcohol and drug addictions are self inflicted, well they are, and these so called depressed people I knew weren’t really depressed and I used to think that maybe if they had a job and some purpose in life then they wouldn’t be fucking depressed!

I know obviously that there are different levels of depression but these people just didn’t want JSA as it meant having to look for work whilst ESA gave you the same amount of money (it varies in its rates though) but you didn’t have to do anything to get the money and this is why people did it.

If someone fiddling the benefits didn’t affect me or my life then I wouldn’t report them because I believe in karma and you don’t their circumstances etc, but if someone was bragging about all their money by defrauding the system then yes, this gets to me but I’m still unsure if I would report them, it reeks of bitterness and being a do gooder to do such things and reporting someone for benefit fraud won’t make you pay less tax all of a sudden so why not let bygones be bygones and let them fuck up all on their own.

Foster parents don’t get money off of the DWP, they’re paid through the SWD.

Inappropriatefemale - drugs and alcohol are self medication for the real
Issues which there has always been a serious lack of funding to address. I would have thought of all people you’d know tyat

Yes but trust me when I say that there was truly Fuck all wrong with the folks I’m talking about, I stuck to JSA when I was an addict and I was fucking depressed and didn’t really want a job at the time but I didn’t once get a sick line for it and I don’t believe that you should be able to get ESA because you have a drug issue, what message is this sending out?! Just get a habit and then do Fuck all and get paid, no wonder the country is in a shambles with the amount of folks on the dole.

People will always do what is in their best interests.
Therefore, structure a system that rewards good behaviour, and requires personal responsibility for poor choices.

All the problems in the welfare system are solved by universal benefit. In other words, rather than the state doling out via bureaucrats, hand the money over to all citizens as a month payment, then require them to organise their own lives.

That means they must have a bank account, health insurance and pension planning is compulsory, they can do what they like with the rest - live in a surfing commune in Cornwall or work 3 jobs, up to them.

All welfare benefits fall away. Benefits should not accompany babies.

If I was the Chancellor, I would reinstate large and generous tax relief for marriage.

Benefits should definitely not accompany babies and I don’t mean working tax credits or the like, I mean people that don’t work and have no intention of working and not because they’re ill or disabled, I mean they just simply don’t want to work and think that they will just have a baby and the state will pay, these are the worst types of benefit fraudsters and the government has made it too easy to live this life.

Does anyone think that the 2 children benefit cap has made people have less kids?

Perhaps the foster parents could do with 2 lots of money for these very vulnerable children ... if the gov/public thru taxes are so generous as to pay twice!

It's hard to believe this is true. If it is, it will all catch up but of course they will have spent it and will never be able to pay it back, unless it's 10p a week for the next 3000 years.

Children must have been in a pretty vulnerable situation to have been removed, as there is so little money in the system nowadays, only the most at risk are removed, so it's hard to have much sympathy, though suspect they too had rotten childhoods, mental health issues and so on ... a never ending cycling it seems. Let's hope they dont have anymore children.

I really don't understand why you feel sorry for this woman she's got her kids permanently removed from her - meaning the children she had wasn't safe in her presence. It takes A LOT for social services to do this especially permanently. If she had loads of kids then she'll be getting a lot of money - she's greedy and she's doing something illegal. If she needs to pay the bills she can go out and work like everyone else has to.

You know nothing at all about these people. They may have serious health problems, possibly poor mental health.

Then she should make arrangements to go onto the proper benefits that are out there for that. Not committing benefit fraud by getting money from children that were removed from her care because they wasn't safe.

Can't believe everyone is getting worked up over a post that probably isn't real/true and probably a complete fantasy on the part of the OP who now seems to have left thread now she's worked everyone into a frenzy.

Plus all these posters in working hours!
absolutely illustrates the problem with making assumptions and having no imagination about exactly how people live their lives, or fit work around family life.
There are things such as shifts, or breaks, or holidays, or night-work, or working from home. Which is how bitterness and rumours start, and lead to malicious claims against people.

(I've only claimed a couple of week's jobseeker's in my life btw, have never defrauded, and I've worked in some low paid jobs, but I would never inform on someone else because I really can't think of a situation where someone defrauding would then go through all their separate benefit incomes to me and tell me all their medical history and reason for claiming!
So that's their business, not mine. There's a limited number of inspectors. Let them focus on people who are doing the most damage, who are defrauding on a grand scale. In the same way I'd prefer police to focus on a crime like rape, rather than someone dodging a bus fare.)

Has anyone seen the thread on MN about that programme about fare dodgers?! Omfg some MN were saying that fate dodgers were disgusting people and criminals etc, I was like wtf?! Get a life.

@angemorange I don’t think people are in a frenzy.

It’s completely true and I now see that it is not an isolated case. Others know of similar. It’s a loophole.

I feel sorry for her just because she appears unable to stand on her own feet.

fare not fare

Fate ffs

@Hadtoask,

If it is true the contract is between the individual and DWP - nothing to do with you. DWP employ thousands to combat benefit fraud it's up to them to discover if there is criminality going on here and take appropriate legal action.

If it is a genuine error the individual will have to repay the money, probably over a very long period of time. If the error is on the part of DWP most of it will be written off.

Can't honestly see what business it is of yours, or anyone else's for that matter.

I'm always shocked how people know the exact finances of others. I hardly even know my parents' or siblings financial ins and outs as much as some people know their neighbour's, colleague's etc., exact financial situation to the decimal point.
Weird