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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To expect all crime to be dealt with properly?

35 replies

Rosebud74 · 08/01/2020 14:37

NC for confidentiality. Today I witnessed and reported a crime, think something around theft category. A PCSO was eventually dispatched, by which time criminals had left.

I've been told that if they're ever found, they'll only ever just be ticked off and told not to do this on this patch. They're never arrested and processed properly through the court because the system is too clogged up with murderers and knife crime.

I have reported a few crimes over the years, as witness and against myself. Today was the only time anyone's even bothered to come out and see me.

I have been told by the police far too often that they don't even bother to make arrests because they have too much on. AIBU to think the criminal justice system shouldn't only exist for murder and knife crime, but for all the other crimes too which affect us daily?

OP posts:

Foreverlexicon · 08/01/2020 15:01

I’ve never heard of officers not arresting for being too busy. Stretched - very much so. Walk away from a situation where an arrest is necessary because they can’t be arsed or are too busy? No unless it’s something very minor like a brake light out when you’re en route to a stabbing for example. Sometimes there aren’t physically enough resources and then yes, there is no one to attend. It absolutely sucks but if there is no one then there is no one.

Crimes don’t always need to be dealt with through arrest. Sometimes that’s not the most suitable option. There are also community resolutions, penalty notices, voluntary interviews. For a minor, first time offence, this can be a more appropriate way of dealing with it.

Not all crimes need officers to attend. It would be nice, yes, but again, there just aren’t enough resources. I was surprised to find out police don’t attend vehicle thefts for example. But actually, what is the officer going to do? Look at the space where the car was and say ‘oh yeah, it’s not there,’
I appreciate it would be nice for public reassurance but there aren’t enough resources for them to be able to babysit people anymore.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 08/01/2020 15:03

YANBU but the police are underfunded and stretched. As are prisons. Until they start being properly funded again they have to choose which crimes are prioritised.

Tableclothing · 08/01/2020 15:06

YANBU. My understanding is that Theresa May's cuts to police budgets hit them pretty hard though, and officers can't attend if they don't exist.

Whynosnowyet · 08/01/2020 15:06

I reported a crime in September. Never heard another thing.
Via phone.. No return call. No visit.

Lilsginpalace · 08/01/2020 15:07

...unless you’re Caroline Flack in which case all the available panda cars in North London will come.

Finfintytint · 08/01/2020 15:09

Was it the PCSO that gave you that information?

Nextphonewontbesamsung · 08/01/2020 15:13

Yes, but do you understand about the cuts to the police force coupled with the impossible to manage increased amount of paperwork they have to do?

Buster72 · 08/01/2020 15:18

@lilsginpalace
Domestic violence matters will always be prioritised, more so when the suspect is on scene and the attack is happening.

OP you are not giving us the full story, but I'll reply that there is not always the necessity to arrest. Without knowing more details it is impossible to state whether YANBU.

LexMitior · 08/01/2020 15:22

Are you prepared to pay the tax necessary to fund the police and courts? You would like to think so, but since people voted for austerity and the Tories, they seem to think there is a magic public service tree that never changes.

It’s changed. It will take a long time to get anywhere near a properly resourced system. You get what you vote for.

Original poster

Rosebud74 · 08/01/2020 15:26

But let's take a look at this. What time and resources would actually be used to formally arrest the criminals? These criminals today may have been the same ones that have been "spoken to" before, I was told. So if they're "spoken to", is a formal arrest really massively more resource consuming?

I previously reported an extremely serious crime a couple of years ago. The police didn't even come out to check I was OK, people nearby stayed with me and looked after me. The police didn't even take a detailed statement from me in person (only by phone later), they didn't attend (the criminal was still in the vicinity, they didn't lift a finger to even begin to look), and they made no enquiries afterwards at all. The police hey said they didn't have the resources to find the offender, despite a clear description, CCTV footage, witnesses and a very clear selection of places where they knew he lived.

The result of this surely is that the state of things has got even worse. It's not just that criminals know they won't be jailed, it's now that they know they won't even be arrested. There is a level of crime now in the UK which is actually agreed to by the police. The criminals are having a ball.

OP posts:

Frothybothie · 08/01/2020 15:28

Report every time and ask for an incident number (there is a possibility the call will dissapear if they dont record it). It all is noted and if a lot of calls are phoned in and not responded to it may generate some attention.

Yes the police and underfunded and prioritise certain offences against certain vulnerable groups higher than others. It must be frustrating for police officers who are keen to serve their communities and deal with law and order to be underfunded and driven by if not targets directly, to prioritise according to certain rules.

Keep pushing. You could always awrite to your MP/ councillor to get the funding issue kicked along.

easyandy101 · 08/01/2020 15:34

Me and my partner both got punched in the head by some mad crackhead shoplifter, who also caused damage to the shop

Police, despite attending, and despite them being on tag, and despite me having a cut under my eye from the punch, were not keen to arrest

I've had people arrested from the same shop who came back to attack me 1 hour later as police just took them to the station and let them go

Clogged up with murder and knife crime. Bullshit. The crimes that afflict most people every day are of no interest to them

Buster72 · 08/01/2020 15:51

. So if they're "spoken to", is a formal arrest really massively more resource consuming?

Yes. 4 hours in custody is a minimum for a simple shoplifters. So many factors push this up.

Then there is hours on court files

Many more hours in court.

Not saying it is right or good but prosecution is phenomenally labour intensive.

Without more info on today's incident we can't let you know if YANBU

ProfessorSlocombe · 08/01/2020 15:52

You get the criminal justice system you are willing to pay for. Given the growing trend for people to not want to pay taxes of any description, I'd say as a society we've made our choice.

That's before you factor in the "let's make a new law" approach to shutting people up social activism. Which will eventually lead to an infinitely big statute book as hundreds of laws get added and none removed.

Still, at least Twitter and Facebook are now safe places. I was scared to go out before.

ohwheniknow · 08/01/2020 15:54

Ok, so have you been voting for cuts to policing or trying to challenge the cuts?

LexMitior · 08/01/2020 15:55

I think you do a massive disservice to the police. They do care. But there isn’t the resource to manage crime as there was a decade ago. People do vote for austerity. Lots of officers have left the service.

Crime requires lots of resource and money. Those services have had huge cuts. It’s not a surprise violent crime is prioritised.

ProfessorSlocombe · 08/01/2020 15:58

Ok, so have you been voting for cuts to policing or trying to challenge the cuts?

Doesn't really matter what the OP did or did not do as an individual. As a society we've made our decision that low taxes, tax cuts, and not bothering those with money is societies priority. Once you've got that in place there is fuck all left for the police.

Don't worry about the rich though. They'll just pay for private security in their guarded estates. Isn't freedom of choice a great thing ?

Coyoacan · 08/01/2020 16:03

If the police aren't doing anything to stop crime, why would people vote to give them more money?

TooTrueToBeGood · 08/01/2020 16:06

You get the criminal justice system you are willing to pay for. Given the growing trend for people to not want to pay taxes of any description, I'd say as a society we've made our choice.

You mean we get the criminal justice system politicians decide we are prepared to pay for. I think most people are quite happy to pay taxes, at least those who are mature enough to realise that public services cost money. The only reasonable bone of contention is would ordinary citizens be happy to pay more whilst the seriously wealthy and certain well known corporations continue to be able to treat the tax system with utter contempt.

ProfessorSlocombe · 08/01/2020 16:08

If the police aren't doing anything to stop crime, why would people vote to give them more money?

Quite a fair question. I also suspect the OP might be less that chuffed to read the "Harry the Owl" case, where the police spent a kings ransom on dealing with someone who - by their own admission - had committed no crime. The same police force are now having to spend 100x that Kings ransom on trying to justify that decision to court. You could probably have paid for 10 officers for a year with what they have spent already. And that's before they have to dig into their funds for damages.

But, as I said, thank God Twitter is safe now. I dread to think what might have happened.

What folk need to remember, is being hit with an axe is a one-off instance. It only happens once. But if someone calls you a "snowflake" (or worse) on social media, the effects can last forever.

ProfessorSlocombe · 08/01/2020 16:10

You mean we get the criminal justice system politicians decide we are prepared to pay for.

Well we elect the politicians, so it's still down to us.

I think most people are quite happy to pay taxes, at least those who are mature enough to realise that public services cost money.

And that was asked - and answered - December 12th 2019. And the answer doesn't bear out your assertion.

WeeSleekitTimerousMoosey · 08/01/2020 16:26

It isn't just cuts to police funding that increase crime, but cuts to mental health services, youth services, social care etc.

If you want less crime you need to pay more tax and prioritise support before people get sucked into criminal activity.

Even then not all crime will be recorded.

Coyoacan · 08/01/2020 16:43

Many years ago I was living in Dublin and the police were every bit as useless as described here. I honestly just don't see the point of them.

TooTrueToBeGood · 08/01/2020 16:52

And that was asked - and answered - December 12th 2019. And the answer doesn't bear out your assertion.

First off, you know fine well that the recent GE was very much a one issue election. Secondly, I'm Scottish and the answer to the question was very different here and absolutely does bear out my assertion. The SNP increased income tax in 2018-19 and did rather well in the GE regardless.

Buster72 · 08/01/2020 16:57

@Coyoacan
What's your alternative?

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