AIBU to ask how many of you are seriously revising whether (or how often) you fly again?

[Thelowquietsea]

We don't fly often (one flight a year tops, mostly to Europe) but reducing my air travel is one of the few differences I can make towards climate change.

And yet, I'm celebrating a big birthday this year. I had an idea to take myself to a retreat quite far away, and now it's 'booking' time, I can't quite bring myself to do it. Especially in light of Australia's tragedy. I'm really torn.

How many of you are making serious sacrifices in this area?

For the record - i think it's a mixture between individual action and systems change. individuals cannot do this on their own, but equally if we don't vote/ push for change, little happens.

E.g. on transport If we don't book night trains they fall out of use, but also the pricing needs to be right (so why are trains more expensive than flying eg? and how do you change that - mixture of govt, infrastructure, adn carbon pricing). I haven't been able to stop flights as family live on another continent but more and more I'm moving to trains where I can (and half the issue are rubbish connections and the price) Plus we need to give a massive signal to the air companies that they must invest in the solutions rather than passively accept that things have to stay the same.

One of the worst holidays you can take is a skiing holiday. Sorry people. The skiing industry is a big problem. People don't actually realize this. I#m going to have to change my name after this as it's outing.
I live in a skiing resort in Austria. I know a lot of people who work on the lifts.
These days guests expect to be able to ski on pristine slopes and expect snow throughout the season. Snow-making has taken off big style - whereas 15-20 years ago you might have had some resorts with "guaranteed" snow and a couple of pistes with snow cannon- these days every resort has snow guns on just about every piste - even the higher ones. They have to do this to compete.
The amount of electricity required for this is unbelievable. The costs of making the snow are astronomical. The amount of water used is shocking and until recently it had to be filtered as it had to be drinking water quality - but the standards have been relaxed a bit now.

And then you have things like this:
phys.org/news/2019-10-austria-early-slope-row-environmentalists.html
Although the bloke from the ski resort claims they store snow from the previous season under a tarpaulin to use in October, most of that snow will have been made during the previous season.

I've spoken to many people about this who work in this industry and they all say that without making artificial snow the entire ski industry would end up collapsing and they know that they are contributing to climate change but what can they do?

And we have the additional problem of so many tourists driving into the ski resorts on Saturdays from Germany and Holland that the roads are jammed from morning to night. There's no getting into or out of this valley on a Saturday between 7 am and 9 pm without sitting for hours in a traffic jam.
Never mind the flights taking off and landing every few minutes at the airport.

This thread demonstrates why we are all toast. The vast majority of people will not do anything until it is too late. And very soon, it will be too late.

I've definitely revised my plans of flying. I always thought that once the kids were older we would do a foreign holiday every summer. We definitely won't be doing this. We'll maybe every other year, maybe less. I do have a brother and family in NZ though, which complicates things as I will want to visit them.

My family and I have not flown now in 5 years for purely environmental reasons. We have made many changes to our lifestyles and this has been the most straightforward. We love travel, but it doesn’t feel like a sacrifice when what we are facing is so terrifying. Both my husband and I are well versed in the scientific climate research and have appropriate backgrounds to be able to critique it. Flying is one of the worst activities a human can do in terms of carbon emissions. And the outlook if we can’t all change quickly enough is indeed very bleak.

Also people coming on here and saying 'oh what's the point in electric cars' or 'ferries are polluting' are missing many points.

• electric cars are less polluting (climate wise) even if powered with coal than conventional cars
• there are several challenges in changing the car fleet, one is changing the fleet and the other is how you power it. It doesn't all happen at the same time, because it takes a lot to change what people buy and how automotive makers change their factories as well as change power sources, but over time you are aiming for electric cars powered by renewables (and an overall reduction in numbers of cars/ increase in other options), so just saying 'what's the point' on electric cars, misses the long term change we need. so for a bit maybe some cars are powered with coal, but then teh technology and usage of electric cars increases, meanwhile changes are being made to the power system etc.
• ferries and ships do use some of the most polluting fuel, however, ferries (in particular) can be changed - and the technology exists already: electrek.co/2019/08/21/worlds-largest-electric-ferry/

We very rarely fly. Last time was six years ago, and the time before that was ten years ago. Both Europe trips, one for a wedding where DD was a bridesmaid, the other a trip to visit a much loved friend.
We do want to visit the friend again, and are mulling over how we might do it without flying, not sure how horrendous it would be.

Nope. I fly for work. Averaging 6 flights a year and then I have family in another continent so that’s once or twice long haul. And the 6 flights a year is a cut down from over 10 - I try to use Skype video now.

Haven’t rtft but has anyone mentioned methane from cows?

How can that be a huge pollutant.
I’m in n. Yorks..lots of pastural land...I honestly can’t say hands on heart we are overrun with cows though
Far more sheep
And I just can’t believe cows are a big problem.

In the Western World we had Industrial Revolution, which polluted
Some countries are still going through the Industrial Revolution (perhaps not exactly the same, but similar)

My question
So does flying create more pollution, than the pre aeroplane era ?

PS
Some volcanoes in the past created big climate changes, which lasted for years

I have been thinking about this a lot recently. My 8 year old daughter was innocently talking the other day about when she becomes a mum and I felt really sad looking at her sweet face. I’m really concerned for her future, I have not felt like that before.

I have always been conscious of my actions in terms of recycling, waste etc and I haven’t eaten meat for 30 years. I live in a city so rarely drive but I have always had a European summer holiday every year of my adult life. I am starting to feel a bit guilty about flying for pleasure and will be looking at using the train more for future holidays. The thought of ever visiting family in NZ is no longer as appealing and I accept that I may never get to see where they live.

Small actions by many do make a difference I believe and I like to think I did my bit however small and inconsequential.

Devereux1

You can ask any question you like, I am not afraid of them. But because you asked in an aggressive way, and your Mumsnet profile shows you have form for this kind of behaviour on threads, I, as others simply jogged on.

In my mind I was thinking... Isn't the information out there on climate change already proof enough? What more information do you need? How much more does Australia need to burn for Devereux1 to believe the threat is real?

Nevertheless, Callme david and NearlyHelloKitty are kinder posters than many, and they've spend a lot of time explaining this and I hope you can show them consideration, read their information and return to the debate on this thread. At the very least it might help you understand why some of us are asking for others to join us in making change.

I didn’t know they made snow 😫

As well as being a poet and don’t know it

The IPCC does not have those apocalyptic scenarios you wrote. There will be challenges but not at all the grim picture you have written where millions nay billions die. Also, we do have technology to prevent sea level rises from affecting cities; Holland has been a pioneer for centuries.

www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/AR5_SYR_FINAL_SPM.pdf

Please point out in the IPCC report I linked where billions will die I must have missed it 😂

No, I have only flown two short-haul flights in 30 years.

Previously we flew on a fairly regular basis, say three times a year for holidays. However, in light of what I have learned about climate change this year, and the devastating effects we are all witnessing in places such as Oz, I can’t continue to justify it.
I have a young baby and I feel fearful for what lies ahead for his generation. This thread has just compounded those fears. So many people too selfish to accept their part in this very real problem and make a change .
What will it take for people to wake up?

I didn’t know they made snow

I went to the snow fields in Victoria over 15 years ago, they had snow making macines then. They not new

MangoFeverDream you're linking to a 2014 IPCC report there.

More recent reports exist, just having a quick glance at the 2018 report on the benefits of keeping to 1.5° rise in global temperature (executive summaries, exec 3 is quite good) gives some extra details and I'm sure there are additional updates and projections. I have to get ready for work but can look further later, in the meantime, please feel free to trawl of more recent docs and other sources.
www.ipcc.ch/sr15/

And yes we have some technology and climate adaption is increasingly important in infrastructure development and maintenance, but can only be up to a point. Flood defences, for example, have a design limit, and generally won't protect against the extreme events likely to become more frequent.

I have limited leave and live overseas. If I didn't fly, my kids would see their grandparents max once a year, and the car journey would take 6 days there and back. A train would be very expensive and frankly horrendous across four countries. As it is, I get a two hour flight which costs 40 quid return and see them maybe three times a year. Yes I feel guilty, but I'd feel guiltier having my kids grow up without a hug ever from their grandparents.

I'm still shocked that a two hour flight can cost less than a train ticket to the next town.

Cranky I linked to the latest IPCC report AR5 that’s what climate scientists generally refer to. You linked to a newer report on a specific topic.

Again, I challenge anyone to link to anything in the IPCC that says millions/billions dead.

I don't fly much, won't this year for sure. Will be using cloth nappies with baby 1 and changed to reusable sanitary products about a year ago. I think it's important to try and do your bit. It shouldn't all be about flying, if everyone made an effort where they can that would help. We are not all perfect divine beings

I wonder how many in Australia think the devastating fires are due to climate change. I’ve heard both sides argued on R4, not sure what the general populace think.

As a richer country who could be feeling it first it’d be worth seeing how and if spending / behaviour changes.