Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask how many of you are seriously revising whether (or how often) you fly again?

677 replies

Thelowquietsea · 06/01/2020 20:25

We don't fly often (one flight a year tops, mostly to Europe) but reducing my air travel is one of the few differences I can make towards climate change.

And yet, I'm celebrating a big birthday this year. I had an idea to take myself to a retreat quite far away, and now it's 'booking' time, I can't quite bring myself to do it. Especially in light of Australia's tragedy. I'm really torn.

How many of you are making serious sacrifices in this area?

OP posts:
MangoFeverDream · 07/01/2020 09:58

China is investing far greater sums into green energy than the US....it seems that you are expecting a country of 1.4 billion people which came late to mass industrialization, to turn green overnight

I’m not expecting them to. Their investment into green energy, as I said, is largely to make solar panels to sell to other countries. Their renewable energy production is mostly hydro (and if one of those dams breaks, you are looking at tens of thousands of deaths, more than any Chernobyl).

Making solar panels is an incredibly dirty business, and not just in the mining for the raw materials; I recall one manufacturer dumping toxic waste from solar panel production into a nearby river (somewhere near Shanghai iirc) but they will meet ill-advised Western demand for them, regardless the environmental cost.

As I stated, they are building over 100 new coal factories to keep up with domestic demand. They are not a green power but will sell you whatever you want to brand yourself green.

To be clear, they have to do what they have to do to make life better for the long-suffering Chinese populace. But don’t call it green.

Also note that the US has been moving away from dirty coal into the (relatively) cleaner natural gas. This isn’t due to government policy but largely an economic matter.

ItIsWhatItIsInnit · 07/01/2020 10:00

I'm not flying at all in 2020. We are getting a ferry and maybe Eurostar this year.

I have to admit it's not mainly for climate reasons - though I do feel guilty about that. I'm 26 and have flown in the triple figures, couldn't even count. Nearly all my family live abroad (across 3 different countries, we are immigrants) so every single half term I was visiting someone. Then I travelled a lot while at uni. In all honesty, I am utterly sick of planes and airports and have had it up to here. I've "done" travelling and would be happy to never fly again.

I work at a holiday company so people there think I'm nuts!

EntropyRising · 07/01/2020 10:01

I don't equate having a child with flying abroad on holiday. They are not the same at all to me.

It's really all the same to anyone else. I'm a mother, my children are precious to me, but I've not done anyone any favours by having them regardless of how well I raise them.

We have way too many humans on the planet and as you've rightly noted, the drive to reproduce is an evolutionary force - we don't need to worry about a precipitous drop in the population as a result of sensible discussions about childbearing.

nibdedibble · 07/01/2020 10:03

@EntropyRising Several hundred years ago, humans could roam frontier lands and stake their claim and start an unfettered life.

I know you probably didn't mean it but this is a hot mess of colonial nonsense.

People largely took land the was being lived on in a massively sustainable way by people whose lives they saw as having zero value.

BeatriceTheBeast · 07/01/2020 10:04

Oh God, so many typos!

...pain OF not being able to have children...

...interventions and having fewer babies

Rayn · 07/01/2020 10:05

What gets me about this thread is that people are trying to justify it... Well I don't eat meat etc. Well how about we all just tr a little bit harder in all areas. Try to fly less, try to consume less, try to eat less meat. If we all just try a little but harder in all areas then it would help instead of trying to convince yourself that a long haul flight does not matter if you have not had children.

I have 4 children which we now know has an impact. However this was before we were aware of climate change. I don't say I will eat less meat, take less flights, use less plastic. I just try harder in all areas and encourage my children to do the same. If we all just cut back 50% on everything then surely this would help.

FourTeaFallOut · 07/01/2020 10:08

I have 4 children which we now know has an impact. However this was before we were aware of climate change.

How old are you?

Devereux1 · 07/01/2020 10:10

If we all just try a little but harder in all areas then it would help

I keep hearing this claim. How much would it help Rayn?

BeatriceTheBeast · 07/01/2020 10:14

It's really all the same to anyone else. I'm a mother, my children are precious to me, but I've not done anyone any favours by having them regardless of how well I raise them.

No, it isn't a favour, but it is much more important to the parents in question. That is why I said up thread how people who choose not to have them for the sake of the planet are usually amazing, selfless people. You don't care if I have children. I don't care if you do. But I really would care if the right for me to choose whether or not I have any children at all was taken away from me. That's what I meant by not equal to flying abroad on holiday. Being unable to have children you really want is truly devastating for many people.

I definitely concede that fewer children per family would be a good idea. Fewer children = fewer old people to look after in old age too as barbara pointed out as well. But no babies being born at all would be a bad thing for the UK imo as well as causing pain to people who really want to be parents.

We have way too many humans on the planet and as you've rightly noted, the drive to reproduce is an evolutionary force - we don't need to worry about a precipitous drop in the population as a result of sensible discussions about childbearing

I'm not worried about the drop in birth rate in the UK. I think it's a good thing, but I posted an article earlier where concern was expressed about it. I mainly posted it to point out that too many babies in the UK isn't currently a problem. Too many people living very long lives may be more of a problem, but that's just my opinion.

But, in brief, I think FEWER babies is desirable or even essential for the future of the planet. No babies at all is not desirable.

I also don't think all flying should stop immediately either btw.

MangoFeverDream · 07/01/2020 10:15

If we all just cut back 50% on everything then surely this would help

PSA China releases the equivalent of the UK’s total annual output of CO2 in just over two weeks. It really doesn’t matter what you do, or what anyone else in the UK does.

MaudesMum · 07/01/2020 10:16

Over the last few years I've done one major holiday and a couple of mini breaks each year, so three holiday flights a year. I did an online test recently to look at my carbon footprint, and that made a considerable difference, and was the easiest thing to change, tbh. [Another major factor was the fact that I live alone in a house with a spare bedroom, and I'm not planning to do anything about that in future!] Since then I've taken a short break via eurostar, and would definitely aim to do more of these in future - aiming to only fly once a year when the place I want to visit is too difficult to reach by any other means.

thecatsthecats · 07/01/2020 10:16

It made sense to me. I interpreted it to mean that she only wants to have one child. But there is a high incidence of twins in her family so she accepts that if she tries to have one child there is a possibility it might be two, which is more than she plans but out of her control once they've actually been conceived.

Yes, thank you :)

If I have one pregnancy, there's a higher chance I could end up with two.

And if I were to get pregnant again, there's actually an even higher chance the second pregnancy would be two.

So yes, whether my first pregnancy is one or twins, I won't risk a second pregnancy, which could also be one or twins.

(For more reasons than the environment - I'd not like to have more kids than hands!)

Fochit · 07/01/2020 10:18

Thanks for clarifying.
I understand now that you only intend to have one pregnancy.

MsTSwift · 07/01/2020 10:18

Also I know the cultural differences etc and visiting family aside but is New Zealand really so different to Scotland? Is the experience of being on a beach in Thailand really so different to being on one in Sardinia? It doesn’t have to be a sacrifice but think we need a shift in mindset on travel.

Fochit · 07/01/2020 10:19

I have 4 children which we now know has an impact. However this was before we were aware of climate change

How old are you?

I can’t speak for the poster who wrote this but I have 4 children all born last century.

BarbaraofSeville · 07/01/2020 10:20

But, in brief, I think FEWER babies is desirable or even essential for the future of the planet. No babies at all is not desirable

Agree. Obviously I realise that if everyone had no children at all, then that would be a problem. But maybe we should see having 3+ as being as socially unacceptable as some people want flying to be, obviously making allowances for when a second pregnancy is twins etc.

dottiedodah · 07/01/2020 10:21

I personally would have no qualms about this TBH. We fly infrequently but I also have a landmark birthday this year ,and hope to visit friends in North America then.We have many friends who fly a lot ,and also go on Business Trips as well . Agree with PP who says unless China ,India and so on play ball then no real changes will happen sadly

FourTeaFallOut · 07/01/2020 10:22

Too many people living very long lives may be more of a problem, but that's just my opinion.

The amount of air pollution we endure will see a global reduction in life expectancy by almost two years. That just pertains to the deleterous affects as a direct result of breathing polluted air though and does not include those dying from the effects of global warming and weather effects, like flooding.

ChardonnaysDistantCousin · 07/01/2020 10:22

PSA China releases the equivalent of the UK’s total annual output of CO2 in just over two weeks. It really doesn’t matter what you do, or what anyone else in the UK does.

Yes, it does matter because they manufacture for us. If we buy less they will produce less.

Kazzyhoward · 07/01/2020 10:24

Every flight I've been on over the past few years has been full, so virtue signalling and not flying ourselves wouldn't make any difference - someone else would buy "our" seats. So that's all it would be - pointless virtue signalling and shooting ourselves in the foot as we'd not get to do what we want for no benefit to anyone.

Flight numbers aren't going to reduce any time soon so it's a matter for the industry to continue to work towards "cleaner" planes.

Also for politicians to come up with ways to reduce short flights that could be done by other means, such as train (i.e. HS2) to stop people flying from Glasgow/Manchester etc to London.

Kazzyhoward · 07/01/2020 10:25

Yes, it does matter because they manufacture for us. If we buy less they will produce less.

Or they could just sell into other developing markets - we're not their only customer!

Kazzyhoward · 07/01/2020 10:26

I have 4 children which we now know has an impact. However this was before we were aware of climate change

We've been aware of climate change for decades - how old are your children? Presumably they're adults approaching middle age!

MangoFeverDream · 07/01/2020 10:26

Yes, it does matter because they manufacture for us. If we buy less they will produce less

Who is this ‘we’? The UK’s demand for Chinese goods is a drop in the bucket.

Vietnam imports more Chinese goods than the UK for instance

Kazzyhoward · 07/01/2020 10:28

I'm not flying at all in 2020. We are getting a ferry

You do realise that ferries are far more polluting that a plane?

bibliomania · 07/01/2020 10:29

I'm better than I was but not as good as I should be. A couple of years ago, I'd comb through the Ryanair seat sales and go somewhere just because the flight was cheap and the dates suited. I'm now rather ashamed of that - I do still fly, but only to see family.