Holiday home left in a real mess

[BigOldOakTree]

I wonder if I can call on the wise of Mumsnet to help me with a question? I manage a couple of holiday homes and we've had a very busy Christmas. I'm not new to this and know the ups and downs of this business. Our guests in one of the cottages over Christmas were given a complimentary welcome pack on arrival, I'd checked beforehand and they were vegetarian so it was catered for their diet. The cottage was decorated with a real tree and I went to a lot of effort to make it warm and welcoming for them. It is a five star holiday cottage and they paid quite a lot of money to stay, but they did receive a lovely property (in my opinion). It's not my cottage but I take a lot of pride in making it nice.

There are a few basic instructions, nothing too bossy, but the main one is please bag up your rubbish and put it in the outside bins on departure. When I went in to clean it after they'd left I've never seen anything like it in three years. It was utterly disgusting. All of their rubbish was in the house, some bagged, some not. They'd moved furniture around. The bathrooms were not fit for a dog. The kitchen was full of dirty pots and pans, food on the counters. The place was a real mess, not just the things I've written here. I couldn't believe two adults and two teenage children (older teenagers) could make such a mess.

We won't withhold their deposit as it could all be cleaned (even though it took me 7 hours to get it back to how it should be) (3 bedroom, 3 bathroom cottage). This is because it will only lead to a negative review and that is so damaging to the business, but am I being unreasonable to think this is out of order?

Sorry to hear this OP.

As a general rule of thumb we always take out the bins, leave worktops clean, make sure plates/utensils are clean and put away (or at the very least if we have an early start after breakfast in the dishwasher left running), used towels collected in the bathroom or washing basket and beds stripped (if requested).

I wouldn't expect to "clean" in so far as vacuuming/dusting but would make sure the property was otherwise how it was on arrival (so moving back and furniture, rearranging and book/magazines left for guests if we'd displaced them).

I think some people simply think because they've paid they can leave a property in a state they would dream of doing in their home (or perhaps their home is left like that so their "bar" is very low).

Unlike other posters I understand why you paid back the deposit. Either way the fact they left the property as they did means they thought that was acceptable and as such would complain about losing their money.

It might well be justified, but as you point out a poor review just isn't worth it. Even if you counter a poor review it's hard for potential customers to decided who is telling the truth and getting poor reviews removed can take months. So as you have said the cost of the extra cleaning isn't worth it and withholding a deposit is only a last resort if they'd broken items that needed to be replaced.

All you can do is black list them wrt your properties in the future and if you use a booking website potentially get them blacklisted on there (or give them a poor guest review).

I think some people think they pay a lot of money to relax and not have to do any cleaning for the holiday .

indeed, who hoovers their hotel room before they check out?

As long as you are decent human being and keep things in a reasonable state, I can't see why you should be cleaning.

If you are very messy, fair enough to have to do a bit of work to put things back as you found them.

Ok but did that impact on your bookings for 6 months?

It can impact your bookings for a season - depending how long your booking window is. (Large properties In holiday spots such as ski and beach resorts have longer bookings and relatively short seasons per year).

To give an example:

One Italian property - stunning views, but on the top of a hill and a hilly site. Steps up to the pool, steps from the parking place to the front door. All of this flagged on the listing and photos of the steps.

Reviews usually 5, a couple of 4. Two years ago someone stayed who gave 3 because although they ‘had a great holiday and loved the house’ there were ‘too many steps’. That took the review average from 4.8 to 4.3. Normally we average 16 weeks June-Sept for that property. On 4.3 we went down to only 10 weeks bookings for the following year. Those year’s reviews all came in at 5 pushing our review average back up and now we have 14 weeks already booked for the 2020 season.

@starfishmummy as a pp said, likely because it's so subjective. In the case of damage, it's more clear cut but who's to say what's reasonable to charge for cleaning, especially when in a lot of cases the customer will have paid for cleaning anyway. Even if you set out expectations this can be ambiguous - eg "leave the property as you found it" is all very well to say but most people will start the let with freshly washed towels and linen and they won't be leaving it like that. Even things like "empty the bins" isn't straightforward now that rubbish collections are two or even three weekly. Best just to stick to where there's actual provable monetary loss as far as deposits are concerned I think.

All reviews should be "managed" by the response to them left by you or the owner. If you don't know how to do that then you need to learn. Reviews of any kind push you up rankings so, whether negative or not, a review will get you more bookings by virtue of being at the top of the search.

Very naive. First of all, as I have said, your review average is already affected. If you have any kind of premier status you stand to lose it if the average falls.

Secondly it’s ok to ‘manage’ the odd criticism in a review - even in properties with mainly 5* reviews you get the odd gripe. But actual negative reviews always make the property look bad, and all the owner can really do is apologise. Owners who don’t apologise and blame the guest risk (even if the guest was at fault) making themselves look defensive and petulant because the reader doesn’t know what happened and can’t judge who’s in the right.

The art to running a good business - is not to get negative reviews in the first place. Having a clean set of reviews is a great for sales.

@TatianaLarina I'd agree with that. If I see an owner arguing the toss with a dissatisfied customer I have no way of knowing what's really gone on as I don't know either of them and it does make me more likely to scroll past because I've registered that there is a problem somewhere.

We took a last minute booking one summer from a family. The house was advertised for 4 (2 bedrooms). They were 5, but one was a tiny baby and they brought their own cot to have in their, very big, en-suite bedroom so we had no problem with this.

They were nice people and very friendly all week, asked lots of questions as they were also thinking of going into the holiday rental business.

They were also very lucky with the weather and it was 30 plus all week. They decided to leave the night before they were due to as it was easier to drive through the night while the kids slept. Lots of our guests did this as they tended to have a 10 hour drive.

Not a problem for us as it meant I could get in their early to start the changeover.

OMG - they hadn't taken any rubbish out for the whole stay and there were badly secured nappies all over the place. It was a few years ago now but it is making me feel ill all over again just thinking about it. no we hadn't taken a deposit, they certainly left one though!

@BigOldOakTree

I have been in the hol let business for 25 years, so have seen most degrees of awfulness (and niceness) from guests.

I have had tenants who have left my properties in that sort of state, and I have always deducted the extra cleaning hours from their deposit. The 'cleaning fee' is meant to represent a reasonable three-hour clean. If it takes seven hours, that is my time, and I expect to be paid for it.

I take photos of all mess, damage, etc, in case the guests claim they left the properties in a decent state.

I also withhold the deposit from tenants who go above and beyond the normal 'wear and tear'. So I wouldn't, for instance, bother about a broken wine glass/crockery etc. I wouldn't worry about one wrecked towel (thanks, fake tan). However, I did claim the money from the deposit of one particular tenant who wrecked six towels with hair dye and fake tan (she denied it, but I had the photos of the towels before washing, and after three washes).

Guests can, and will, leave bad reviews if they are aggrieved to have found their own filthiness penalised. However, all the hol let websites enable you to reply to negative feedback - and it will be clear that one random poor review, to which you can reply, is not representative of the service you offer. You can also review the guests.

I don't in fact expect guests to remove all their rubbish. I like it if they do, but it's not an expectation. In some ways, it's easier for me to deal with it, as I know when the rubbish/recycling is collected.

I am satisfied if guests leave the properties in a generally tidy state. I don't expect them to clean anything - just 'generally ok' is fine. I give a five-star review to any guest who doesn't force me to do extra hours of cleaning/moving furniture back to its rightful place/washing up (ugh), etc.

We rent holiday homes every year. We always:
Take rubbish out
Make sure the dishwasher isn’t running and that all the crockery etc is back in the correct place
Surfaces are wiped clean
Everything is in its correct place

We usually wouldn’t hoover or clean the bathrooms (obviously wouldn’t leave them in a state!)

We stay at holiday cottages a couple of times a year. I would never leave mess behind, always clean up the kitchen, put dishes away. Strip the beds ready for the cleaner to change, (this is often written in a manual for guests) and put out the bins.
I probably clean more at the holiday home than I do at my own home

I would always take rubbish to outside bins, generally leave towels in bathrooms, beds unmade (assuming they’re going to be stripped anyway). Pots/pans washed and sides wiped over. What I have done occasionally is left the dishwasher going if we’ve been late putting it on, but I think it’s only a few minutes to unload and it will all be clean. Recently we got home from a short break and realised teen DD had packed the towels from her room with her dirty clothes. I washed them and posted them back to the house - with a note of apology. I wasn’t sure what else to do!

indeed, who hoovers their hotel room before they check out?

A hotel room is a bit different to letting a whole house though. In a hotel room, you sleep, wash, dress and that is about it. In a holiday let you LIVE there, cook, eat, drink.... basically a home from home!

I think “broom clean” is a good guideline. So rubbish removed, fridge empty, no big crumbs, but still expect the home provider to do a proper scouring between guests. I avoid holiday homes that ask for more because I don’t want to end my trip scrubbing toilets and floors.

We stay in a holiday home a couple of times a year. We always take the rubbish out, clean round and make sure dishes are done!

I don't always empty out the rubbish, it isn't always clear where it's meant to go.

Also, although I do the washing up, I don't always dry and put away. I had naively assumed that the owners would wash it all between guests anyway. Similar to what someone said about spitting in the milk, how do you know previous guests haven't licked the plates?

Think I'll be washing everything before I use it from now on...

had naively assumed that the owners would wash it all between guests anyway.

pretty sure no one does. I wash everything before using it personally!

I'm afraid there isn't time to wash every glass, plate, cup, cutlery between guests. Why would we do this anyway? If a guest feels they want to wash the crockery then that's up to them, most normal people wouldn't lick a plate before putting it back in the cupboard??

I think I'm a very thorough cleaner and the properties always get good comments about the standard of cleanliness, towels, bed linens, etc. I've never had anyone comment on the crockery. At the end of a busy time, i.e. now or after the summer I'll have a kitchen clear out and wash all the cupboards and drawers but this isn't done every week.

We went to an air bnb for the first time last year. They charge a cleaning fee, I can't remember, £75 I think - so a good couple of hours of anyone's time. We left the place decent, all rubbish bagged (but inside as no info given as to where to leave it and didn't want it ripped open by foxes/cats). Dishwasher emptied, surfaces wiped, etc - we were there 3 nights only. Anyway, got a review saying the place wasn't left as clean as by other guests - I was a bit shocked. Are you expected to dust and hoover on holiday? If so I shall go to a hotel in future.

I am shocked too, I would strongly complain to AirBnB

When you are charged a cleaning fee, it's to avoid these unpleasantness. You pay, they can't complain cleaning wasn't up to their standard.

I wouldn't even bother renting a place that doesn't include an end-of-stay clean, happy to pay extra for it, but I am not wasting hours of my holidays dusting!

They are CF if they charge you AND moan it wasn't professionally cleaned, what do they want? that you change the bedsheets too?

I spend quite a long time cleaning at the end of a holiday let.
Now I know I'll probably get my deposit back regardless I won't bother.
It's a right pain when your expected to be packed and out by 10 and have the fridge,dishwasher and bins emptied and beds stripped.
That's not to say I'd leave things filthy but just do the very bare minimum in future. I'm unlikely to want a repeat booking.

Having a few holiday lets myself I sympathise OP, the state some people leave cottages in is disgusting and you just feel they wouldn't do this at home so don't leave your rubbish and dirty dishes in someone else's house. A couple of years ago I even had to replace a sofa because a drunk woman had peed on it and the urine had soaked through so yes I did hang on to her deposit so I could put it towards a new sofa, there's no excuse for being manky and dirty so trip advisor or not that person is never coming near one of my cottages again.

I've never done any cleaning in a holiday home and never had any argument with the owners - not even in notoriously difficult France! There was only one house that insisted that the dishwasher should be empty, and we managed that ok. If there are no instructions on where to put rubbish/recycling we make sure it is taken away to public bins as we leave.

We leave all used towels in one pile in one bath but don't strip the beds. As for mopping or running the hoover round? ridiculous.

Last year, we made a puncture in a large inflatable pool animal. We left a note for the owners saying sorry and please take the money for a replacement from our deposit - they did not and left us a review saying we were perfect tenants. We had watered their garden for them and left the house tidy.

It is a give and take business where people need to be reasonable on both sides. Luckily most people are reasonable and most people can let and rent holiday homes without too much bother.

Nowadays when you can take photographs and have them instantly available and instantly shareable, I don't see how holiday makers who have left properties in a mess can deny the evidence. Likewise, holiday homes that are rented out in a less than clean state - take photos before you even unpack and use them as leverage to get money off or as the justification for leaving a poor review.

most normal people wouldn't lick a plate before putting it back in the cupboard??

No, but then most wouldn't spit in milk but apparently it happens.

I spend quite a long time cleaning at the end of a holiday let. Now I know I'll probably get my deposit back regardless I won't bother.

I really would bother, Notso, because anyone who does this professionally will decidedly not give you your deposit back if you leave the place looking like a tip.

It's a balance thing. Nobody expects guests to leave the place hoovered and dusted. But nobody expects them to leave the place looking like a pig-sty. 'Reasonable' is perfectly adequate. I have loads of guests who leave the dishwasher on when they leave, and am always glad that they have bothered. If they have done the washing up by hand, I do always stick it in the machine as I think it gets cleaner that way - but I don't re-do everything (would be a PITA in a 3-bed house). Every single item (crockery, all cutlery, pans, baking trays etc) gets dishwashered about 4 times per year, when I have a decent gap.

I'd never clean at the end of a holiday! Who goes on holiday to clean?

Tidy, rubbish in bins (empty bins if it's easy/obvious where it goes) and wash up but nothing beyond that.