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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand the drives behind domestic violence

46 replies

Alanis126 · 27/12/2019 13:34

Firstly although I have never experienced it myself I have every sympathy with DV victims. I was watching "The Accident" the Channel 4 fictional programme about a disaster in Wales and it struck me how casually DV was interwoven into the story. I've known people who experienced this but I simply do.not understand what drives people (usually men on women) to do this. I can understand sex drives, drive to eat when you are hungry but I just don't get what happens in a man's brain to make him want to assault his partner, leaving aside.whether he even likes her or is in love with her.

OP posts:
OhioOhioOhio · 27/12/2019 14:32

Power. Control. Macabre sense of joy.

RuffleCrow · 27/12/2019 14:32

Control.

Read Lundy Bancroft, OP. "Why Does He Do That?" It's called. Just about the most enlightening book I've ever read.

northernknickers · 27/12/2019 14:33

OP...that scene in The Accident where Sarah Lancashire's husband first punched her was sickening. Her absolute acceptance of it chilled me.

"Not the face, please, not the face."

😢

Pan2 · 27/12/2019 14:37

Fear is the emotion, I think. Fear that the world is not developing in the way they wish it to be for them, getting fearful and angry, and then trying techniques of control to make sense of it all. So controlling the controllable brings comfort of sorts.

Motoko · 27/12/2019 16:22

Link to the free pdf version of Why Does He Do That?.

Otillie · 27/12/2019 17:06

I am a victim - if that’s the acceptable term - of domestic violence; I may not have read the whole thread, but what I have read so far does not seem to have had replies from other people who have been subject to physical and emotional violence. So, from my perspective please allow me to express the raw anger I feel at reading the explanations given by people who presumably haven’t been subject to domestic violence. I find it hard to explain my visceral, um, anger, but anger it is. Please, don’t feel you can explain a situation you have not encountered ( I hope you haven’t and never will ) in a few buzz words; Control. Anger. Inadequacy Those of us who have, quite literally survived , know that those explanations scrape the surface of a multiplicity of reasons and the single reason is a tendency to, and enjoyment of, violence. It’s deeply triggering to read this post.

Otillie · 27/12/2019 17:26

And , can I say, the inference that someone subject to terrible violence might in some way contribute to that violence also perpetuates a myth. There are no extenuating circumstances. The drivers lie in the abuser and are as individual as the abuser to all intents and purposes. It isn’t always possible to predict, or put in place mitigating circumstances.You might as well ask what makes someone a murderer. It has been years since my abuser was in court, and I walked away to make a new life, but it is just below the surface,the trauma, so tread warily before making glib assumptions ; someone very near by just might be like me and feel as awful.

ohwheniknow · 27/12/2019 17:31

Then do the Freedom Programme course.

Otillie · 27/12/2019 17:33

You, ohwheniknow, are simply awful.

WireBrushAndDettolMaam · 27/12/2019 17:37

It’s the Male sense of entitlement. They feel entitled to what they want, when they want it and from whoever they want it backed up by knowing they have the physical strength to force it and the societal infrastructure that will allow them mostly to get away with it.

Verily1 · 27/12/2019 17:43

Imagine a school bully- being cruel to get a sadistic pleasure from some else’s emotional and physical pain.

There are men who still believe a woman deserves to be hit if she behaves in a way deemed inappropriate (eg lying/ stealing/cheating/ not having tea ready at 6)

Some men see domestic abuse growing up so it’s normalised to them and learned behaviour.

Some hate all women and dv is just the domestic manifestation of this.

We live in a patriarchy where women are deemed less valuable and men internalise this to believe women don’t deserve the same right not to be treated abusively as other men.

Some men like to think of themselves as the boss of the house and rule the roost with an iron fist, treating the partner and dcs like possessions at his disposal. They use fear to control them to make themselves look like a good patriarch.

Alcohol is often a feature of domestic abuse but is no excuse.

Offenders can repeat their abusive behaviour because the law in this field is toothless and sentences weak.

Men tend to have more £££ in a relationship so are in a position of power where they can exploit the partner.

Toxic masculinity which glorified violent men (see crime as entertainment).

Women get blamed for the abuse leaving the men free to continue.

Some men in relationships feel entitled to sex and rape in marriage has hardly ever had a prosecution.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 27/12/2019 17:50

CosmoK so sorry for you and your families tragic loss

Not sure it can’t be summed up in a few words but I think control or the wanting to control or feeling they should have control is the main drive. Many enjoy this the fear their partner/ex partners feel and the power they feel when violent or threatening to be

Jealousy, insecurity, anger are all feelings will feel at some point in our lives these are used as excuses for violence

Winterwonderland10 · 27/12/2019 18:04

Been in an DA relationship. Agree with control and power. Feeling inadequate in other parts of their life so use power on their partner to make themselves feel better e.g. I am a man and i can do what I want to you but I wouldn't dare take my anger out on another man. See women as weaker and agree stems from childhood. Most grow up in abusive families and the pattern repeats

Okbutno · 27/12/2019 18:05

I'm going to assume your post is well intentioned op. But tbh I struggle to get how you have no comprehension of the drivers of this. Have you never had any experience of toxic masculinity or male aggression? Have you seen how men behave in the world?

LexMitior · 27/12/2019 18:11

Imo the poster who said enjoyment of inflicting pain.

This is the biggest indicator that you are dealing with a problem. Women often feel embarrassed by dominating partners or seem very uncomfortable in company. If the partner seems to be enjoying his partner’s discomfort then often it is far worse at home.

People who make excuses for DV or ignore are mentally lazy. They don’t see how it affects women and children for years afterwards. That’s if the woman manages to leave. If people don’t get help then you and your children stand to be fucked up by it.

A majority of men who end up in prison have seen their mothers be the victim of DV, and they themselves are victims. A violent or controlling home has lifelong impact. These men have been given a completely toxic mix of entitlement, broken self esteem, and lessons in how to bully and control their partners. It’s completely generational and gets passed down unless someone intervenes very early to prevent it.

BertieBotts · 27/12/2019 20:37

Control, control, control.

Abusive men don't see women as being on a level with them. They see (all) women (but especially "their" woman) as being a kind of "step" lower on the hierarchy, much as children are below their parents/teachers, employees are below their employer, dogs/horses are below their owners. And in fact I think the dog comparison is an easy one to understand.

Imagine you have a dog. (Maybe you do). You probably treat the dog nicely, it has a warm comfortable bed, enough food, even gets treated a bit at Christmas, lots of fuss and cuddles, you take it for walks. You would never hurt the dog or shut it outside in the cold. You feel angry when you read about people who mistreat their dogs - you would never do that. You are a good dog owner. You love and adore your dog - you would do anything for it.

But at the same time, you know that it's a dog. You buy its food in a can (and it is trained not to touch your food), you leave it at home alone when you go out, you don't expect it to participate in an intellectual conversation, and it is expected to be obedient, come when it's called and go to the toilet where you specify, not where it likes. This is all perfectly reasonable and fair because it is a dog, not a person.

Abusive men feel fairly similar about their wives/girlfriends. I'm not saying that they consider them to be as low down in the hierarchy as animals, they tend to put "woman" somewhere between "man" and "child" IME, but it's a quick way to get your head into that mindset. So for example, the abusive man most likely believes himself to be a good husband. He's not like those other husbands that really mistreat their wives. But a little e.g. (porn, drug use, gambling) that she doesn't know about won't hurt her. She isn't really welcome on those boys' nights out because it's not like she would be able to understand our humour anyway. You humour her waffling on about the housework but it isn't really important. And occasionally, well, if she's out of line it's not unreasonable to let her know about it.

Now, think about a situation with your kids that really winds you up - for me it's when we need to hurry up and leave the house but they are moving like treacle and/or fighting every instruction, or it could be when they are really pushing a safety issue and scare you. Or it could be a lippy teen/preteen who thinks they are the world's authority on whichever issue. I'm sure everyone has those trigger moments. You know, the things which just make you boil over and shout, or threaten something you wouldn't normally, or get the urge to hit them (even if you wouldn't actually do it). And then later you calm down and you feel sort of guilty but you also know that they were being out of line and on some level they deserved it. Also, even if you think you could have handled the situation better, you still recognise that you needed to make them stop whatever it is they were doing - that IS your responsibility and it comes down to you. Imagine how you might react if, after/during your meltdown towards the DC about their behaviour, instead of actually going "Oh shit mum means it" they looked you in the eye, ramped it up a gear, and got worse?

Pull those together and that's what an abuser is thinking/feeling when they engage in abusive behaviour - threats, verbal abuse, name calling, control, whatever it is. They believe they are a higher authority to their partners and that their partners ought to abide by their rules. On some level, they believe that it's their responsibility to keep her in line. There will be countless tiny everyday occurances inside the relationship where she makes some "infraction" and he subtly nudges her towards the "right" thing (in his mind). For example, she might spend time chatting with her mother - and he will be quick to check up that she isn't "discussing our private matters" ie that she is not reporting on him. She probably won't notice that this is a tool of control, just think he is insecure. A lot of control comes across as insecurity, and a lot of abuse victims are chosen because of empathy that makes them sensitive to and mindful of this kind of thing. So she will end up changing her behaviour to accomodate his preferences. But occasionally he will decide she has gone too far and you get that moment where he is the angry "parent" who explodes. She doesn't usually see herself in a subservient role, so doesn't react in the expected way leading to more explosion/threat/force being used until she submits purely from fear or exhaustion with the situation. The abuser then believes he was correct to do that and is pleased that it worked, even if he feels guilty about the outburst and starts the grovelling apology cycle.

DeathStare · 29/12/2019 05:52

@Otillie - please don't assume that other people replying haven't experienced domestic violence. i suspect many of them have. You speak from your experience, they speak from theirs. Both are valid. I don;t think people are using "buzz words" and I don't think that's a fair assumption to make about people who may well also have experienced domestic violence. The fact that people may only be able to post a word or two, to me suggests that they may not be in a place where they can deal with their experiences by posting longer answers. You are able to speak in a bit more depth, not all people who have experienced abuse can do this.

@Whatsername177 Do you know where I would be able to get hold of that letter? i would be interested in using it in a similar way to you.

Scarsthelot · 29/12/2019 06:10

My personal opinion, an abuse survivor is that it's about control. They feel so inadequate that they believe they must control their partner. It's usually their partner only they do it too.

My exh controlled me for years, by manipulating me. Making me feel like shit if I went out or did something he didnt like so that I would stop doing it. Going through my phone, my facebook, asking me questions in a particular way so I couldnt answer without being wrong.

When I became wise to it and it didnt work, it ramped up to violence and rape. he admitted that he felt if we had sex then he had a claim on me. I was basically a lamp post he was pissing on to mark his territory

I know a woman who was violent to her much larger stronger partner. She was the same. So convinced she needed to control him to stop him leaving. Her husband was admitted to the hospital and when we arrived we heard her and her adult son saying that she thought the police might get involved. The sons response was to say he hit her first, she said 'but he didnt' the son simply said 'but they will believe you'.

I believe she would become violent to goad him into hitting her back. He never did and when he left and stayed with his family she threatened to burn their house down if they didnt kick him out so he had nowhere to go but back to her. She reported him to the police for doing things like sending pizzas to her door and parking outside her house. Each time he could prove it was bollocks. The police threatened her with wasting police time, in the end. Even 2.5 years later, if she gets a hint he is seeing someone else she calls him, his family kicking off.

My exh just fucked off once he knew he had lost. Got a new girlfriend within weeks and moved in with her. She likes to give me abuse from time to time but I just respond by laughing. He has clearly told her that I am desperate for him back. But generally I get not shit from him.

Theres also some people who are just violent to anyone. Theres a couple down the road and the man thought it was funny to growl at my son on his way to the shop. He has asd and going to the shop was a big deal. It really upset him. I went down and both him and his partner started threatening me. She went for me

Unfortunatly for her I have been kick boxing for 20 years and she couldnt even get hold of me. I only had to defend myself not actually hit her. The police came and told us they regularly kick the ahit out of eachother. And it's true. 3 times this year they have been in the front garden hitting eachother. He is always worse off by the time they are dragged off each other. I suspect that they are just the sort of people that resort to violence rather than it being about control.

Sweetpeach3 · 29/12/2019 06:24

My experience was control, he seen his dad to it to his mum (both still together) so thought it was okay and to make himself feel ontop of the world an better about himself the fact he had someone to shit on.... x

echt · 29/12/2019 10:15

I've known people who experienced this but I simply do.not understand what drives people (usually men on women) to do this

It's like asking why dog lick their balls.

Because they can.

echt · 29/12/2019 10:17

To elaborate: if women had complete economic independence, i.e wages and pensions, there would be no DV.

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