Rules when renting a holiday place - bonkers or completely normal?

[DragonMamma]

We are renting a large property for over New Year (for a total of 3 nights). There are 10 bedrooms and 9 bathrooms. We rent houses regularly and have done for many years. This 3 night break is costing just under £3.5k so it’s not exactly cheap.

We’ve just received the list of do’s and don’ts from the owner and it reads like nothing we’ve ever come across before. It’s like they are reluctantly giving us use of the place and barking instructions at us.

Some examples below copied and pasted from their 7 page (!) instruction manual.

*YOU ARE EXPECTED TO LEAVE THE PROPERTY IN A SIMILAR STATE OF CLEANLINESS AS YOU FOUND IT, IF THE PROPERTY IS NOT SO, YOU WILL BE CHARGED AN EXCESS CLEANING CHARGE.
Including all floors to be hovered or swept, bathrooms and toilets cleaned, kitchen to be cleaned, all washing up done and put away.

Hot water will be on in the morning from 7am until 10am, briefly at lunchtime and again from 5pm until 10pm. Options for extra heating and hot water are available please see our website. These must be booked in advance.

NEVER LEAVE THE WOODBURNER UNATTENDED. IN INTERESTS OF SAFETY UNLESS YOU ARE EXPERIENCED USING WOODBURNERS WE SUGGEST THAT YOU DO NOT USE IT.

Swimming pool - Shallow end depth of approx. 1metre, deep end depth approx. 1.9 metre. STRICTLY NO JUMPING, DIVING OR OTHER BOISTEROUS BEHAVIOUR*

AIBU to think that if you’re charging over a thousand pound a night and absolutely insisting on a 10am check out (OR face yet another additional charge) then you simply cannot expect the occupants to clean 9 bathrooms and do all of the general cleaning. There’s also a strict list of what cleaning products are to be used where.

We always leave properties in a decent state - we will set the dishwater off after breakfast, give the bathroom a quick wipe so it’s not excessively dirty. We’ll bag all the rubbish up etc and make sure it’s tidy and do whatever else we have time for before leaving (strip the beds etc.). But this reads like they want us to clean it to a professional standard all before 10am!

AIBU to think this is a bonkers and that it’s not the responsibility of the occupants to do the cleaning for you? And to also have to book extra hot water in advance?

How on earth are we supposed to know when we are going to want hot water? What happens if we go swimming after lunch, do we have to sit and wait for it to come back on at 5pm? They have take a £500 security deposit and based on the list of things we may get charged for is endless and it’s really put us off going 😞

Why would anyone leaving a house rental NOT give it a clean and tidy-up before they left?! I'd be embarrassed to leave a mess!

We stayed in a caravan in France a few years ago. We had to leave at around 6am in the morning in order to get our ferry. The accommodation was exceptionally basic and literally only the bare essentials were provided. luckily I am used to camping so had taken kitchen roll, toilet paper (no toilet paper was provided) washing up liquid, cleaning clothes and anti bac spray. The rep asked that would really thoroughly clean the caravan as it was busy changeover day. I wouldn't mind but they left absolutely no cleaning products, there was someone elses dirty socks behind the sofa when we arrived and we were leaving at stupid o'clock!

What we have done in similar big house situations is leave the kitchen with surfaces wiped and any mess on the floor cleaned, sink clean and washing up from breakfast in the dishwasher. Fridge clear. All mess cleared through house and beds stripped if required. Rubbish/recycling in appropriate places. Bathrooms with wiped down sinks and clean loos (respectable looking). Any mess on carpets/floors cleaned as it happened. Any minor breakages reported. What I have never done in a big house after a weekend: mopped or hoovered, got cleaning products out for a wholesale clean anywhere (usually not provided), cleaned baths/showers or indeed sinks and loos beyond wiping down. This has never been required or lack of it questioned. A team of cleaners is always ready to descend.

@DragonMamma

Been lurking, I used c&c in Devon for a few years. The last time we used them we had a nightmare. Plumbing issues. Dirty crockery and a filthy dishwasher. Called the manager who came running on foot to the property ( 20mins run!) and he said they don’t open the cupboards on check out, the cleaners don’t have time. They charged a £500 damage deposit refundable on check out for a 2 bed place, and didn’t even check to see if everything was present and correct.

I wrote an accurate review on their website, but they filter out any that aren’t positive. My review vanished.

When we stayed the previous guests had plumbing issues as it was in the visitors book. The manager knew there was a major leak from the ceiling to the ground floor. We had a plumber in who said he needed to rip out the bathroom to get to it. Said we needed to change properties. Made my little girl cry. Then he spoke on the phone to the manager, Came back in and said oh. Don’t use the shower all week and it will be ok. So we couldn’t shower all week. Complaining was useless. They didn’t want to know. We had so many problems in the week we stayed, they refused to refund a penny in compensation.

Beware of c&c.

The cleaning requirements and the restricted hot water are particularly bonkers.

I wonder if they’re in breach of contract, if they’ve only just sent you these rules; surely you should have full info before you book?

I’ve stayed in places where I had to clean before check out and places where the fee included a cleaning charge. Either is fine but I think the conditions need to be very clear at the time of booking so that people who can’t be bothered to spend their holiday cleaning don’t book this property.

The hot water rules sound very mean.

The wood burner I am 50:50 on. They can be dangerous if left unattended but then perhaps it’s best to avoid having one in a rental property.

The pool no diving rule is sensible. The pool just isn’t deep enough for diving safely.

Having said that, the tone the rules are written in is very off putting and the owners don’t sound welcoming or accommodating.

I would always leave a place decently clean with all rubbish taken, everything straightened, sand swept out etc. But I never actually clean, mopping floors, cleaning the bath etc. Surely the cost of the cleaners is included in what you pay? You don’t clean a hotel or B+B room. In many European places we’ve stayed (Austria and Germany) there was a hefty cleaning fee on top of the rental (eg 50 euros), and in France we’ve had an inspection before leaving- 30 euro docked from the deposit if you leave it filthy.

I need closure! What’s the latest did you manage to contact the agency?

I would recommend you back out now if you can and fight to get your deposit back.

Yes it's bonkers but this should have been clarified before booking.

I've been stung like this before and they will more than likely find an imaginary issue to charge you over so you had better take pics/video for posterity.

Like others, I’ve only seen that stringent cleaning requirement when renting in France. We always pay a cleaning surcharge there to avoid having to end our holiday doing a proper clean.

Sounds grim

Holiday lettings are a leisure service and adopting a welcoming tone towards your guests is really important.

Successful businesses know they depend on repeat custom and part of this with holiday accommodation is feeling welcomed and as if you are actually on holiday and receiving something you wouldn't at home.

Yes, self catering means meals are not provided, nor daily cleaning, but people expect to arrive to something professionally cleaned and to not have to provide a professional clean themselves at the end - it is their holiday and they are paying for it. They also expect to feel welcomed. Lots of bossy instructions before arrival, or stuck up all over the place clearly don't create a welcoming atmosphere, nor do threats of extra charges for doing things which seem part of staying in a property you've paid for - suchbas extra charges for hot water at different times of the day.

Those letting need to charge sufficient to allow them to provide proper cleaning services and to appreciate that holiday makers can be expected to leave things clean and tidy but not professionally cleaned - exactly who wants to spend 3 hours cleaning a large holiday let before leaving at 10am on their final day - it's not rocket science to see that isn't compatible with finishing a good holiday.

The trouble is that like rentals in general, there are lots of amateurs in the business. There are those who are letting their previous homes which are still 70s style and who think they are doing their guests a favour and there are lots who don't realise that when you run a business you earn revenue but also incur costs and they are all part and parcel of it.....cleaning between lets is one of those costs. Amateurs provide holiday homes with unsuitable fixtures and fittings and then get cross if they get damaged - the wooden work tops and draining boards, the China ornaments everywhere, the very easily scratch able dining room table etc.

Personally I've found that although it will cost a bit more, finding a holiday home through a large, localised holiday letting company is best.....they tend to stop the owners imposing daft terms and know they are reliant on repeat bookings and treat the visitors as the valued clients they actually are - so whilst they have measures in place to deal with guests who caused damage and really take the piss, they accept that people will leave rentals in varying states of cleanliness and that the cleaners need to get the properties to the acceptable standard. So if someone has hoovered and mopped and cleaned out the fridge and scrubbed the baths before leaving it's a bonus, but if all they've done is loaded the dishwasher and wiped the kitchen surfaces, they accept that as fine......it means they don't need to leave the bossy Notes everywhere, keep checking up or intrude on the holiday makers holiday.

And yes to not renting from owners who live on site, want to 'pop in to see how you are getting on' or who seem overly personally invested in the property as their own beloved home.

If hiring from anyone not part of a proper large holiday company now, I would ask at the enquiry stage if professional cleaners a e provided between lets, making clear I would expect to leave it clean and tidy but not to spend the last evening or morning doing a thorough clean. I'd also look out for and avoid owners living on site.

A holiday home needs to be welcoming, to provide basic information to enable the home to be used properly (info about rubbish bin days, recycling, how to use appliances and heating etc) to be really clean on arrival and then to leave the guests to their own personal enjoyment of the holiday, however they choose to enjoy it. It needs to allow them to depart leaving the property tidy but not not immaculate.

This seems completely normal to me and I rent a lot in the UK, including large houses. The hot water thing is the only oddity - but given the size of the house there will be a large hot water tank so hot water availability may not actually be an issue. A lot of houses I rent specifically say that the dishwasher should be empty on departure so either you get up early to run it and have it finished before you go or you wash by hand. In certain areas cleaners will be doing multiple houses so can’t wait for the dishwasher to finish.
Just be careful in the house and you will be fine.

I own a small holiday rental property, & I employ cleaners to clean.
Those conditions are ludicrous - rent another property.

There might be only one cleaner on minimum wage who is expected to get this property ready for the next guests. Would it really be so hard to ask each of you to tidy up after yourselves?

Would it really be so hard for the owner, who is charging several thousand pounds, to pay for enough cleaners? People who rent houses aren’t a charity. They’re paying their money for a holiday.

Fatima, but why should people spend the last morning of their holiday getting up extra early so they can breakfast early enough to load the dishwasher so it can finish a cycle and they can empty it before leaving? Why should they clean to professional standards which might take 2-3 hours when they have to be out by 10 and are on holiday and are paying?

To be honest, having enough cleaners doing enough hours to get properties ready for the next let is the concern of the owner and something they need to sort, rather than foisting the work on the holidaymakers. If this requires paying more and charging more for the holiday property, so be it. It is reasonable to expect someone to load a dishwasher and set it off, but not the rest. If your cleaners are there for less time than a cycle, I'd suggest you need to hire them for longer time periods per property and that's just a cost to be incurred in running a professional service.

In the past, places asked guests to bring their own bedding or towels and to pay for electricity etc. Times have changed and people expect bedding and towels and that properties have been properly cleaned and they don't need to do a professional standard clean themselves at the end.......because it's their holiday. They pay someone else to source the bedding and towels and enough cleaning hours to get it sorted. These days, unless you charge a bargain rate and make it clear on booking that you expect things which are no longer the norm if your guests, askimg them to do things which require them being up at 6am on the last day of their holiday, isn't going to leave them feeling positive about their holiday experience.

And holiday property owners/agents - don't you want your guests to leave feeling positive rather than their holiday was spoiled by 3 hours of heavy cleaning? Yes, you don't want lots of damage but you don't want to make people feel they have become a drudge and will never return...that can't be a good business model.

I clean my own house all the fricking time. I’ve found that it takes at least three hours just to get 20 people breakfasted and out of the house with their belongings, leaving the house tidy and with basic cleaning as described in my post above. A thorough clean of a large house would involve either getting up at 5am or spending an evening of a precious three night stay cleaning, and I would never want to go back there.

I think thats terrible, you cant be expected to be cleaners for them. and for that price I would expect unlimited hot water, in fact most places I have rented for much less than 3k have had unlimited hot water all day.

These do seem a bit heavy handed on the cleaning side. Usually expected to leave surfaces cleared and tidy, as are floors bed etc. The hot water is pretty mean. The pool restrictions I can understand (drunken parties and water do not mix). £1000 a night for 10 bedrooms isn't expensive, there could be 20 people there making it £50 a night. Why didn't you know all the terms and conditions before you finalised booking?

I have a tiny little holiday cottage that I let out and for the first year pulled all the stops out for my guests. But you do get jaded. I’d say they have had a run of bad guests. I’ve gone in to clean up and been left a open bin bag of adult nappies, huge muddy payprints on expensive sheets. The door handles taking off completely. And you get jaded. You feel you have to spell out the bleedin obvious. Just so the minority who are knobheads understand what is reasonable. I’d say don’t take it personally. It doesn’t apply to you. It’s to the lunatics who have no idea how to behave like civilised adults.

I spend the last morning cleaning because it’s in the t’s and c’s to do so and I think this is quite normal ( by the way when I write rented I mean I am the holidaymaker not the owner) In terms of not having enough cleaners have you considered that there may be finite labour, especially on islands, where everybody has the same check out day, generally a Saturday. These terms are what I would consider normal for Scotland and the North of England.

Oh and normal for France and Germany too.

Evening all

The property somebody linked to up thread is the correct one - great detective skills! Some websites list it as anywhere between 8-10 bathrooms but who knows.

We decided to not to do anything about it (sorry!) this close to the booking as we definitely know we won’t get anything else, given that we arrive tomorrow. We will take endless videos upon leaving and departing but we won’t be doing any more cleaning than we would normally do as we simply won’t have time to do it, without impacting on our enjoyment of the break.

We’ll also be sure to leave our DJ decks and laughing gas at home, sticking to a very sedate Malbec instead

If nothing else, it will be an experience. I’ll obviously update if anything remotely juicy happens...

Also @WombatChocolate makes some great points. Their rules are just so unwelcoming...

They also don’t provide towels or any loo roll to get you started

fatimashortbread Theres actually a federal law in Germany which states that those renting out holiday cottages must either include cleaning in the price or offer a clear choice between cleaning and paying a set price for cleaning.

So it's absolutely not normal for guests to be contractually obligated to clean a holiday home in Germany - it would actually be illegal, in fact. It's sometimes possible to actually choose to clean holiday properties yourself to save yourself 50€...

Enjoy, OP!

It is really NOT normal to ask holidaymakers to thoroughly clean a property, particularly a large house on a three night let. I would not stay anywhere that required it. If labour is short, it’s up to the owner to factor that into costs including turnover time or paying higher wages to attract staff. If it’s not economical to do that then you don’t have a viable business. I won’t ‘muck in’ to do a deep clean when I’m paying, I’m afraid.