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Original poster

I will probably get flamed for this but ...

178 replies

glitterytrainers · 22/12/2019 10:58

When anyone talks about pensioners they say that the person has worked all their life, deserve their pension, free bus pass etc. Do you think it is possible in the near future that there are going to be a whole bunch of pensioners who have never worked a day in their life? I certainly know a few who have never paid into the system but will get the same pension as me. And no, I'm not talking about disabled people or people with chronic illnesses or carers.

OP posts:
Ferretyone · 22/12/2019 11:31

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

If you are in receipt [legitimately] of benefits you will build up credits towards a state pension. If you do not have those benefits you can - at the appropriate time - apply for "Pension Credit"

UtuNorantiPralatongsThirdEye · 22/12/2019 11:31

I couldn't afford to pay into the pension scheme and can only now, by working hard and taking on a more responsible role with more money start saving a bit

Why didn't you work harder when you were younger? I find it difficult to believe you've work all those years for a shit wage.

Baaaahhhhh · 22/12/2019 11:32

Most of the very old women needing social care at the moment will not have worked nor paid NI. My DM is an example. 92 years old, and very entitled. She has had a basic state pension, and a widows pension, a part of my dads pension, until she married again, and then back to the standard pension. She never worked a day in her life. TBF she has, of course, paid VAT and other taxes, and she had private health care until she was about 85. However, she has definitely had way more out of the system than she ever put in. Her free prescriptions alone are a weekly fortune. My dad however died at 68, so I suppose she has benefited from some of his mostly unused contributions.

As a balance, she is actually paying for all her care costs, £850 per week, and has just paid Capital Gains of 65k on a second home....... so perhaps I should give her some credit.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 22/12/2019 11:32

Ferretyonethanks Smile

Original poster
glitterytrainers · 22/12/2019 11:33

I don't suppose it will matter anyway - I'm due to retire at 67 but they will no doubt put the limit up and I will drop while I'm still working. And in that regard I'm lucky because I don't have a physical job - god help the people that do. Do you think someone who has done a physical job their whole life and has to give it up due to not being able to carry it on to pension age will get their pension early? Absolutely not!

OP posts:
JinglingHellsBells · 22/12/2019 11:34

Everyone over 65/ 66 /67 now is entitled to some state pension, but the amount depends on your contributions. The maximum SP is for anyone who has 35 years' 'credit' in the form of NI contributions. However, women can also gain 'free' NI contributions if they have been at home bringing up children and not working, so this could be for 18 years (or longer if they had more than 1 child.)

In principle, @glitterytrainers I agree with you, but this is an issue that has been debated for years. The decision was the cost of means testing pensioners outweighed the savings.
Clearly there are many pensioners with occupational pensions who, in retirement, can still have an income of £30K upwards pa if you add up their SP and occupational pensions. eg two teachers each with a pension of £20K plus almost £10K each from the SP could have £60K pa.

It is unfair and I also think that free prescriptions for the over-60s is unfair. It encourages people to 'be ill' and it's crazy when the retirement age now is 66/67.

goodluckdontdie · 22/12/2019 11:35

I don't really care what other people get - I just think the system is a bit unfair that's all

You don't care what other people get? Why did you start this thread then?

The state pension is very fair if you consider its objective: That every person of pension age should receive a sum of money that allows them to live. That's all. Every person should be given this amount. Doesn't get fairer than that.

If you want more, you pay into a private pension to complement the state one.

Original poster
glitterytrainers · 22/12/2019 11:36

UtuNorantiPralatongsThirdEye I've worked bloody hard all these years but couldn't work full time because of 3 children. Do you not think if I could have afforded 3 lots of childcare (including twins) I wouldn't have worked full time?

OP posts:
ChristmasSweet · 22/12/2019 11:36

And as I mentioned before I couldn't afford to pay into the pension scheme and can only now, by working hard and taking on a more responsible role with more money start saving a bit.

Again that is your fault, not your friends or the governments. You chose not to be responsible, you chose not to save anything. You could have put money out of your wage each month or week into an account or pension. You didn't. You have accepted you weren't responsible and therefore accepted responsibility. Don't blame others for what you did.

It sucks but that's life. You have started saving now so you will have more than her. Unless she's been saving her whole life, then you won't.

Yetanotherwinter · 22/12/2019 11:36

@GrumpyHoonMain sounds good to me.

x2boys · 22/12/2019 11:36

People can't just decide not to work anymore ,they have to be looking for work after their youngest child turns five( I think) I'm well aware that many people in the past were able not to work for whatever reason but times have changed .

JinglingHellsBells · 22/12/2019 11:37

Do you think someone who has done a physical job their whole life and has to give it up due to not being able to carry it on to pension age will get their pension early? Absolutely not!

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, to stop anyone at any age ( including you!) setting up your own private pension from the day you start work. It might only be £20 a month you put in but over 40 years it adds up and the government also tops it up, as you go.

Anyone who has a physical job should look ahead and if they cannot keep working into their 60s, they are the very people who ought to be either making plans for other work, less physical, or saving in a private pension plan.

The days when people expect the state to provide for them in old age will end one day because the taxes from the young are simply not going to meet demand.

Read the paper by David Willetts on the lost generation and you will see why!

FlorencesHunger · 22/12/2019 11:38

The idea of a state pension is to provide a minimum so that people who can't take work due to old age can atleast have some basic living and leave the jobs for younger more productive people.

One thing that has stood out in the past years is not about so much as deserving and undeserving but about personal responsibility. They cross over quite a lot but my main point is you don't deserve more state pension than the next person. You are responsible for yourself so if you want more you are going to have to do more to achieve that.

I don't think the state pension will exist as it does now or the age for retirement will be so high your quality of living at the time will be reduced due working so long.

You aren't paying in to your state pension but those who are already on it. So if state pension is scrapped or reduced in someway after all those years of work then you will not have a safety net/back up if you don't set up a private plan.

riotlady · 22/12/2019 11:40

@glitterytrainers so you worked part time for a period of your life, as has your friend, but because your reasons for working part time are “better” than hers, you deserve more pension, is that about the size of it?

JinglingHellsBells · 22/12/2019 11:40

@glitterytrainers you get NI pension credits for the years you stayed at home. I will get my full state pension as I've got over 35 years of contributions (very few full time as I had children) but you get those NI contributions topped up. Not sure of your age now but you can do a pension projection, online, very easily.

You can still open your own private pension now. I've just put a few £Ks of savings into one which will grow nicely over 10 years (when I'll be in my 70s) and the government tops it up by 20%. free money!

Redcrayons · 22/12/2019 11:41

I think it's the opposite, there's going to be less people and specifically women who haven't worked much, most households don't run on one wage anymore.

In my friendship group (40-50 year olds) I only have one friend who has been a SAHM since having DCs.
My mum is one of the few of her friends who went back to work after having DCs (though when my sister started secondary school).
My grandmother gave up work when she got married as was the norm.

Original poster
glitterytrainers · 22/12/2019 11:41

posterJinglingHellsBells when my kids were younger every penny was a prisoner - I put some money away for them but that was it. And I agree that the younger generation are not going to be able to pay for the upper generation's pensions. I know how difficult it is to get a full time permanent contract these days - and don't get me started on zero hours contracts - that's a whole other post.

OP posts:
Shesalittlemadam · 22/12/2019 11:42

@glitterytrainers I totally get what you're saying. It's the wording "She/He have worked all their life" and will it be the same in 20/30/40 years? Nope.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/12/2019 11:42

YANBU. Bring back the workhouse. Better still, just let old people starve and beg until they die.

Bluerussian · 22/12/2019 11:42

I don't get how your opening post can be reasonable or unreasonable, you're just making an observation or a forecast. Yes it is possible just as it is now but most pensioners have worked. What kind of a half life have people had if they've always been fit and well and never worked, I can't imagine anything more demoralising.

On a positive note, people - especially men - often die within a few years of retirement; if you've never worked life will be the same as always when you're of pensionable age so you don't have to learn to 'wind down' or 'find things to do', you just carry on as normal :-). Just a thought.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 22/12/2019 11:43

The state pension is a Ponzi scheme. Your contributions are covering current State Pensions not being saved for your future.

I think all pensioner benefits should be means tested but it will probably cost more than it saves. I am 50 and I would probably lose out in any means testing as we will probably be wealthier pensioners.

Original poster
glitterytrainers · 22/12/2019 11:46

riotlady she chooses not to work time and has done for many many years - her children are adults now. So she hasn't worked full time in more than 20 odd years. She never intends to do so again but we are both getting the same pension on retiral. Every other part of our income is means tested - tax and national insurance so why shouldn't people who pay a bit more get a bit more? I would love to work part time but for one my job won't allow it and secondly I can't afford not to work full time. And if I was only part time I wouldn't expect to get the same pension as someone who has worked full time for years - just as I would be paid less in wages.

OP posts:
pointythings · 22/12/2019 11:47

The state pension is an absolute basic minimum - why would anyone begrudge another person so little money? The UK state pension is one of the lowest in the developed world...

DioneTheDiabolist · 22/12/2019 11:47

Totally right OP. We should cull the scrounging fuckers Oh, wait that's what's happening already with Austerity destroying people's access to medical care and benefits.

Only those who can work should live.Hmm

Summerandsparkle · 22/12/2019 11:48

I work in a job where I deal with people’s finances/ income etc.

People living off only state pension have a shit lifestyle. It’s not enough to have any kind of decent stand of living.

Its all very well and good arguing who does/ doesn’t deserve it but the fact is if you don’t work and build up a private pension you’re completely fucked.

I don’t understand the jealousy around people who are on benefits. Just be glad that you’re working, paying off your mortgage, building up a pension and will likely leave an inheritance and so on. You will be better off by far.