AIBU warn you that your UC might not be paid this month

[GailCindy]

It's things like this that makes not working far easier. If you just received full benefits and did not work,it would not affect you.

www.mirror.co.uk/money/universal-credit-flaw-could-see-21126333.amp

" Universal Credit assessment periods run for a calendar month, so for example if a UC claimant has an assessment period which runs from 25 to the 24, they will in fact find that they have received two monthly wages in this assessment period (29 November & 20 December) and so may receive little or no Universal Credit at Christmas,"

So while you may budget for 1 pay check and I UC payment to last you the month, that month you will get 1 pay check for December and 0 UC or severely reduced based on the fact that your November UC payment was in the same assessment period. Of course you've had to pay for 3 weeks inbetween your November and December paychecks and won't get another paycheck for 5 weeks.

UC say they set up the system to work this way so appealing is pointless.

"An assessment period is a period of one month and any income received within that month is used in the calculation of a customer’s Universal Credit entitlement.

"Where two sets of earnings are received in one month a customer will receive less benefit to reflect this.

"However, customers will then receive an increase in Universal Credit in those months where no earnings are received.

"This is not a system flaw and is part of the design and build of Universal Credit."

However, there is this:

"HMRC send monthly salary information to Universal Credit, and there is an easement now available for employers reporting PAYE information in real time - meaning your boss could pay your early for Christmas, but tell HMRC that you were paid on the normal date, removing the problem."

"But Advice NI are concerned that neither employers nor employees are fully aware of this."

My employer knows nothing about it.

Yes. Presumably you would then get more UC the next month, but that often isn't very helpful if you don't have any savings to see you through.

It just highlights the fact that the people who designed the system have absolutely no understanding of what the realities of life are like for the people who need universal credit, and nor do they even care enough to find out.

If you depend on any of the benefits and you're not so badly off that you can't afford food/utilities/etc then I think its really important to try and save enough to cushion you from crap like this.

I do lots of payrolls at work and tbf to Hmrc they have issued notices to employers, and some of the software providers have put it in there somewhere too this year.
Employers been told to process on normal day even if paid early.

Hopefully the effect will be less this year. Fingers crossed for anyone who has this issue.

That's a positive sign.

Tis shit.

Labour promised to sort it.

Hmrc have told employers even if they pay early to report the wages on the correct day they fail to follow that advice and people get stuck

If you rely on benefits always always save something

Yes. Presumably you would then get more UC the next month, but that often isn't very helpful if you don't have any savings to see you through.

Nope you would lose all your UC for that month and be forced to reapply for UC (which shouldn't effect the next payment but a. It's a pain and b. Its UC so probably would fuck up somehow). No take back no explanations nothing it's just gone.

I've a few friends like me who work and get UC top ups and many of us find our employers dont believe us when we tell them how UC works and why a simple mistake with pay can screw us up for months. One WhatsApp group I am in has this phrase we always use when people like employers finally listen to our position on UC and why we cant just take extra hours for less pay knowing it will mean in a substantial cut in cash for the household and children who haven't agreed to go hungry so you work more and take less benefits. The phrase we always use is "that's illegal!". Most recently a friend was put on the wrong hourly rate at work so had a lot less money than she budgeted. She borrowed the shortfall from her mum. She got it back the next month or the month after but obviously had to pay her mum back so that month she wasnt left with more than just her wages from her employer as she had to borrow the money to sort what is their admin error.

The month she was repaid she got less than fifty pounds UC so had to pay her entire rent and living costs on a sum of money that the Government had already decided needed topping up for her to be able to survive. When she explained this to the pay department, they said "That's illegal" and immediately offered to give letters stating that they had underpaid and then corrected themselves thinking that it would help her appeal but it isnt a mistake at all.

@slipperywhensparticus

You cannot save anything when you are already running at a minus.

@slipperywhensparticus are you taking the piss? Save something? What world do you live in where people who rely on a top up from Universal Credit to survive can 'save something' bloody nora

"Save something"? Hahahahahahaha!

Oh, you're so funny!

Nobody is saying it’s easy but yeah you do have to save. 10% of anything that comes through my account always went in the of fuck fund.

My mother was on benefits for years and always put a tenner away each week. People generally live to their means no matter what they earn

I don't really understand how people in this day and age are so destitute. I have a relative who lives like this but there is a shed load of other chaos in her life so probably not a helpful example for me to try understand.
The technical detail is also really hard to get your head around if you aren't in the system.
Can anyone give a lived example of how this works?

We get tax credits and it has fallen into one of those months were as it is every 4 weeks this month brings two payments. Lucky I guess.

Most recently a friend was put on the wrong hourly rate at work so had a lot less money than she budgeted. She borrowed the shortfall from her mum. She got it back the next month or the month after but obviously had to pay her mum back so that month she wasnt left with more than just her wages from her employer as she had to borrow the money to sort what is their admin error.
The month she was repaid she got less than fifty pounds UC so had to pay her entire rent and living costs on a sum of money that the Government had already decided needed topping up for her to be able to survive. When she explained this to the pay department, they said "That's illegal" and immediately offered to give letters stating that they had underpaid and then corrected themselves thinking that it would help her appeal but it isnt a mistake at all.

Shouldn't she have got more UC in the month that she was paid a lot less? (I'm not on UC, still on TC so just trying to understand how this works -or doesn't it seems!)
I thought that was part of the reasoning behind the assessment periods in real time and then the payment after so that that months income can be assessed before a payment is made, so by that, if they deduct because you earn more one month, don't they increase because you earn less another month? But it sounds like that didn't happen to your friend, which is worrying for people like me who have fluctuations in hours weekly because my rota goes over 8 days not 7, so one week I technically work 4 nights in one pay week, the next 3, so I earn different amounts all the time. It works on TC because I average my earnings over the year, add £500 to account for any overtime, and then declare that. I keep an eye on what I earn through the year and adjust the figure as necessary so I don't get an overpayment.
The two pay days in one assessment period is going to affect weekly paid workers too won't it? I get paid weekly and I'll get 5 pay days this month and again in August I think.

Yes but you dont get UC pound for pound so you still end up with less. So for every pound she earned over the minimum allowance, they deduct 66p or so. So on that month that she didnt her her full wages, she only got a third back of the shortfall from UC

@Inliverpool1

I did save money from when I was on full time benefits and studying and working full time. I used all of it pretty much as soon as I went on UC and carer/PT worker.

@GailCindy

Yes but you dont get UC pound for pound so you still end up with less. So for every pound she earned over the minimum allowance, they deduct 66p or so. So on that month that she didnt her her full wages, she only got a third back of the shortfall from UC

This is crazy, I don't get how it can be allowed, effectively your friend has paid for a mistake not even by her (and made in genuine error) if it hadn't happened, she'd have been the same with no loss of anything. It's like it's been designed to punish people for earning low wages for whatever reason (I work ft and get TC) and are trying to force people into higher paid jobs and off benefits completely, which would be great except a) that many of those jobs don't exist and b) who's going to do all the minimum wage jobs? I suppose it might eventually have the effect of employers struggling to fill low paid roles so having to increase wages, but an awful lot of people are going to suffer in the meantime.
I thought UC was meant to make living and working better, but by the sounds of everything I've read not just here but a lot of places, it's going to stop people working, no matter how much work ethic they have because an ethic doesn't put a roof over your head, cash does and if you can't meet your living expenses working for low wages topped up by UC reliably then people are going to do what they need to to survive.

meaning your boss could pay your early for Christmas, but tell HMRC that you were paid on the normal date, removing the problem."

I work for a big national company, who many are on short hours and low pay who are on UC. I cannot imagine for a minute approaching the pay department and asking for this and getting anywhere.

There is no empathy, understanding or even competence from even lower management in dealing with colleagues on UC, let alone getting money out them early.

Makes me so angry. I am in the fortunate position that I do not need UC and until recently I was completely oblivious to the fact that people on benefits are kept in a sort of poor trap (I don’t mean this offensively).
You have people who want to work more but if they over earn then the UC cuts mean they are effectively getting 38p from every pound they earn. Unless you are then fortunate enough to get a lottery win/inheritance which will see you through a few months whilst you earn enough to support yourself without UC you are stuck in a vicious circle.

Save some money is not really easy when you have £2.50 in your purse, less than £5 on a gas/electric meter and no food in the cupboard to feed your kids. How is it possible to save when this is the reality of a lot of people??

I think what a lot of people dont understand or care about is that when you know your budget is going to be tiny, to survive with your mental health intact you still have to think about having a balanced life on that budget. It isnt realistic to cut out anything that can be counted as a treat or luxury forever because you need some leisure in your life to be well. This is especially the case for kids. They need toys and fun for their development. You can do fun things on the cheap but it still costs a bit of money and you have to make sure you do a bit of that even when you are a poor parent.

When people advise me about my situation they sometimes suggest I live in poverty without a job which is at my potential until my son is as independent as he will be for life. They tell me to not do the few small nice things we do or not buy him presents so I can save for a stormy day (every day is rainy!). They do not understand that I would sink into depression and so would my son and then we would be less able to work. I always talk about our ability to work because that is what they care about most.

I process payroll for many companies and we put them all through for the end of the month.

I managed to be poor without being depressed and rich and very depressed I don’t think the two are linked. What people on tiny budgets need to realise is there is no feeling like financial security. If you can create that it’ll feel 100 times better than the two minutes pleasure from a £2 ice cream or a bus ride somewhere instead of walking. Small things can make a big difference

@Inliverpool1

The reality for us is that we will never be financially secure. Living a miserable life with nothing nice will mean that you're unlikely to be able to enjoy any financial security you do achieve or it will be used to access private mental health care.

Having that ice cream might mean I or someone like me can find the resilience to go another day and face the challenges we have as disabled people/carers or whoever we are. Never having an ice cream can make your life seem pointless.

As a disabled person who will never be able to work, there is nothing more frustrating than not having a way out of the situation. I've been unemployed before and on JobSeekers - and it sucked, but I knew it was short term. But there's nothing short term about this.

For me I generally feel I have enough to cover the very basics, but it's when other things happen - something breaks down, or something unexpected happens. It's also the total fear of having to rely on the government for survival because there is no other choice.