Landlords, please advise

[happy97]

I moved out of a rental house 3 weeks ago. I still haven't received my deposit back as they're getting quotes to repair the damage I did. Their justification of damage is a chip on a ceramic floor tile in the kitchen, broken freezer drawers, marks where I have put up pictures (but have filled, sanded and painted), Laura Ashley curtains that I have had dry cleaned still have some marks on the bottom where a drink must have spilled and absorbed up into the fabric.

The house was brand new when I moved in 3 years ago. I did a huge amount to the house and garden but I'm being held responsible for so many things. I think the LL wants to get the house back as it was 3 years ago but it's been lived in!

Am I being unreasonable to think that as a landlord you do have to do a degree of upkeep to a property after 3 years? I'm not prepared to pay for the house to be fully repainted, carpets replaced, locks replaced etc!

I'm prepared to be flamed as I know the whole LL/tenant topics are contentious on MN but any advise would be appreciated.

This is why I rented my houses out unfurnished..less to haggle over at end of tenancy.
I would expect the wall to be as new. The tile well if it wasn’t too bad..I would probably overlook
The locks was a problem for your life to sort ..not you
If your light fitting looked better than mine I’d leave it.

My tenants have completely re vamped my house..all is good ..except for the ugly fire surround they have put in instead of mine.
They can have that back.

My house was stark white..I love stark white..however accepting that this is their home..both sets of tenants ..wallpapered..which I hate it was too late they’d done it.

Next one comes I , removed their wall paper and adds their own and Adds a frieze..In the child’s room ...I hate friezes
They have put nice doors and flooring in..so I will overlook that.

I am a LL and I would be charging you for electrician to replace lights, give you choice of painting entire wall or paying for a painter to paint it, ask you to either properly clean curtains or replace with a pair of equal quality in same colour/material. I would order new freezer drawers to replace the ones you broke and a handyman to drill out broken tile and replace providing there is a spare. If not charge you a fee for damage caused. You should have asked LL to repair lock if was broken. It was not your house so you should not have taken this on yourself. Improving the garden is not relevant. I hope they can get a tile in same colour as one you broke. Wear and tear is normal use e.g. small scuffs. BY changing electrics you could have invalidated LL insurance so I hope you got permission. TBH OP you do not sound like a good tenant. I have had tenants live in my properties for eight years with three children and a dog and cause less damage than this.

The curtains are damage so I would expect you to be charged. Same with the freezer drawers. The tile depends on the damage really (and I wouldn't have tiles floors in a rental in the first place).
Painting - I prefer tenants not to paint and I'm not bothered about painting at the end of a tenancy. I rather do it myself to my standard.
Changing the lights would be a definite no for me. I am not saying you did this but tenants who ask if they can change lights or swap a fire as they have 'a mate who can do it' get a strong no. Everything I have done is certificated and I dont want amateur fiddling going on.

It all sounds very odd. In three years that’s a lot of damage. You can’t even remember how the curtains got stained (you assume a drunk was spilt), you can’t remember how a kitchen tile broke, the locks broke but you don’t know why and you yanked do hard on frosted up freezer drawers that you broke them. Are you always this clumsy? I don’t think I’ve damaged that many things in the past 20 years, let alone 3.

You might think the lights are an improvement, but that’s a matter of opinion and unfortunately in a rental it’s the landlord’s opinion that counts when it comes to cosmetic matters. The original lights would have been chosen for a reason. The landlord will know which style attracts a higher rent as it’s more in line with current trends. You’ll be surprised how much more people are prepared to pay for a property that is more fashionable than another.

I’d be unhappy to get a house back after 3 years like that.

Aside from all the damage that has to be repaired, your LandLord has the hassle of organising repairs/replacements - and the property will have to remain empty while they take place.

There is a difference between wear and tear and damage.

Damage I would expect to be returned to the original state.
Damaged tile is not wear and tear.
Curtains are not wear and tear.
Broken freezer drawers are not wear and tear.
A few wall marks that can be painted over I would personally accept.
Holes in walls or ones filled and not sanded to make an invisible repair is damage .
I would replace locks at my cost if all keys returned but not if keys are missing.
I can sell old lock and keys on after being removed.
I expect to be able to rent it out again with minimum input after 3 years with it being a new house.

Any stains, dirt, spills, scratches, dents, chips, pen, nail varnish, makeup marks etc is damage

You keep saying you’ve improved the house but it wasn’t your house to change.

You wouldn’t rent a car, change the stereo, do a dodgy repair on the door where you’ve attached reindeer antlers and change the ignition lock without expecting to be charged so why is a house any different?

I rent off my BIL and he’s fantastic, genuinely doesn’t care what we do to the house but we still double check before we change anything as it doesn’t belong to us.

I’m a landlord and I’d absolutely be charging you for the damage.

I cleaned all the skirting in DDs studio flat as she laughed at me. The rental agent went around with a white glove- I kid you not! We got the deposit back and she offered me a job! I got the last laugh.

I would expect the curtains to be cleaned again. The walls would depend on whether it shows up. DD wasn't allowed to put anything up and I don't let anyone without asking and then I consider it.
Changing the locks is their responsibility.
I would expect to paint after three years. Trade off some for what you have done in the garden so tile in kitchen, painting but freezer drawers perhaps your responsibility.Have you mentioned about the landscaping as long as you leave the plants.

I owe multiple rental properties (in Australia so different laws - previously owned one in UK) and you have damaged the property and need to repair it.

My tenants are not allowed to paint or wallpaper walls, nor put holes in the walls or use those supposedly removable wall tape hooks (because they don’t remove easily and usually take a chunk of plaster with the hook). I have two longer term tenants who I have allowed to put up artwork, however they have agreed (in writing) with having the holes professionally mended and wall painted to cover the holes/repair if they leave. I only allowed this after they had been there two years and proven to be respectful of the property.

In regards to your circumstances, if you had painted my walls I would be charging you for:
*a professional painter to return the walls to the original colour and finish (no holes ir poor patchwork)
*a licensed electrician to remove your light and replace with the original
*replacement of freezer drawers
*cost of replacement curtains (or part there of given they are three years old).

With regards to the tile, I would be inspecting this to see if it’s cracked/chipped etc. If it’s a small chip (eg from dropping a cup or plate), then I’d write this off as wear and tear (I’ve done it myself). If it’s clearly a chip that could have been fixed, but has then subsequently lead to tile wide cracking because you did not report it, then I’d consider charging you partial replacement cost (as chip would be wear and tear, but failure to report it for me to fix has lead to further damage).

Regarding locks - why was the issue not reported to the landlord when it broke? Your landlord should have been responsible to fix this at the time it broke.

Regarding the garden - you do not have permission to plant trees etc and I would charge you to remove and return garden to original state (however I would have not let a house with only grass, a nice plant border at least breaks it up).

I would also not be providing you with a positive reference and would be advising any agents conducting a reference check of what you did to my property. As three month inspections are standard in Australia most of what you did wouldn’t of happened or would have been picked up very quickly and you would have been charged at that time and your 12 month lease would not have been renewed.

Also, haven’t all freezers been auto defrost for at least this century? Surely you don’t need to manually defrost a 3 year old freezer.

I worked in Lettings, the terms of any contract are that you leave it in the same condition as it was rented. Did you read the contract fully or just skim & sign? Visible patching of wall holes isn't acceptable. Adding shelves & a new light with ceiling rose is only OK if you got permission & they're removed when you leave: its only your opinion that they improved it. As to new tenants will make same damage putting up pictures etc, picture strips leave walls unmarked & have been around for years. Why didnt you use them & avoid a total repaint charge? That, with the garden stuff etc says you saw it as your property, to do with as you wish, however, with rentals it isn't,however much you may think so.

@happy97 why don’t you show us photos of the damage. Lots on here are LL. Have you still got the original light fittings. If you do it would really help your case if you return it to the LL.

Did you have regular inspections? This is a good time to show any defects. Although really they should be reported when they happen. If you haven’t asked for permission or reported faults this will be a costly lesson.

Forget the landscaping, the LL might not appreciate your gardening. I think that might not be seen in good light. Again hard to comment without photos.

Why do you keep bringing up the garden as an "improvement"? It doesnt matter. I have said before- I CANNOT rent out a property to anyone else if the freezer is damaged, curtains are all stained, tiles are chipped/damaged and the electrics haven't been done properly. An extra bloody tree in the garden doesnt make those things "ok". I can easily rent a house out WITHOUT a tree in the garden so planting a tree makes ZERO difference to the rentability of the house. You could recreate the hanging gardens of Babylon in the back garden and I would STILL expect the damage to be paid for because that is what is legally expected.
As for "he hasn't paid a penny" - sorry but thats blatantly false. He's paid for:

1. Mortgage on the property (and with new rules you cannot now offset interest against the tax)

2.Landlords insurance 3.Yearly gas safety checks

1. Estate agents management fees (they take a % of every month's rent plus you have to pay extra for inspections and when a new tenancy is drawn up)
2. He will have had to submit a yearly self assessment tax return and paid a big chunk of the rent he received from you to HMRC.
3. Savings for when you move out because there is no guarantee he'll find another tenant immediately and in the interim period he will have to pay for mortgage repayments, council tax and elec and gas bills to keep them connected.

Unless you own multiple properties (and by that, I mean LOTS), you aren't becoming rich on being a LL. Trust me. I am one.

I'm an inventory clerk and if I did your Check Out I would have assigned all of that as damage.

Holes that have been patch painted are visible, deliberate actions, unlike scuff marks that are part of normal living. You should expect to pay about a tenner per hole - not the whole house, the whole room or even the whole wall. It's called a proportional compensation charge.

A chip in a tile will have required an impact, dropped cup or similar, and is damage. Cracked tiles often are not as they could be down to the substrate. But tiles, on the whole, don't just chip. You pay for the repair.

Freezer drawers! I see a lot of these in rented houses. In my 56 years of life I have only seen one in my own home! DH pulled on a frosted up drawer, it broke, we bought a replacement. You should have spent the £20ish per drawer. The landlord is entitled to replacements, but you could argue that he can't have new for old. But as they are supposed to last for 10 - 20 years you would still owe him about 90% of their value.

Light fittings you should have had put back by a proper electrician. I would also hope you had one fit your preferred fittings as you would probably have negated everyone's insurance is not! You could be asked to pay for an electrician to put them back as was, or to be checked for fitness for use.

Curtains aren't something anyone would expect to be stained. They are a low risk item. So yes, you could be charged for cleaning or again a proportional compensation charge. Again curtains are expected to last forever so you'd pay a high % of the cost.

Landscaping! Your choice. The landlord could ask you to pay for it to be reinstated as was, remove the tree (as he now has to maintain it) etc.

Keys are a nightmare. Given you changed the locks instead of asking for a repair you have to replace ALL of the keys not just your tenant set. So if the agent held a management set and the landlord had one you need to replace those too. Often a landlord will just change the lock and keys again, and TDS etc will agree that is reasonable!

When you decorated with permission did they say that you had to put it back as it was when you left? That would be the normal arrangement. Stark white, magnolia and cream are always preferred in the rental market. If you did not the you could be charged for the redecoration. BUT you can easily argue that as landlords should expect to redecorate every 7 years you only owe about 50% of that charge.

Towel rail etc you should have reported and reported... if you did and have proof, like emails, then dispute that, as an ongoing issue from the beginning of your tenancy.

Basically, after 3 years in a brand new or totally refurbished house I wouldn't expect there to be much to report. Scuff on walls, maybe spillage on carpets and some settlement cracking. It shouldn't need redecorating or anything replacing as decor and furnishings all last longer than 3 years!

That and New for Old is not an acceptable charge and proportional charges should always be levied. Though again 3 years is not a great % of any white good expected lifespan.

I hope that helps.

any charges made to you should be reduced by the fact that you were there for 3 years. e.g. the reasonable expected life for a carpet might be say 5 years before it needs replacing, if a tenant damages it and it needs replacing after 3 years the tenant should only be deducted 2/5ths of the replacement value as 3 years worth has already been "used".

Fair wear and tear for 3 years is quite a lot - the landlord should be expecting to redecorate in any case without charging you so query everything with the DPS when their claim comes through. Only accept things that they have solid proof of having been perfect when you moved in, and where it is definitely reasonable that the item should have lasted more than 3 years and you only pay that fraction of their expected life over and above 3 years.

I would query the freezer drawers - I have never had freezer drawers that lasted more than a couple of years without getting cracked, I reckon those are fair wear and tear too because they are never robust enough for ordinary everyday use.

Anything they can't prove was perfect when you moved in, you shouldn't have to pay for.

Drawers on cheap freezers are horribly brittle in the cold, so I can see how they would get broken. Especially if the freezer iced up. It's a difficult one IMO.

Would you say I should pay for the whole kitchen floor to be re-tiled despite one tile being chipped?

The master bedroom carpet being replaced because you can see indentations from my bed.

There are no proportional deductions being allocated. I appreciate there are things that should have been put back the way they were, and I should have made sure that all picture marks were invisible. But I did think that there would be an element of redecoration and I do feel I am being unfairly treated.

It's not the stark white canvas it was with just turf for a back garden.

You focused on the wrong things - people spend a lot of money to create a stark white canvas to let or sell a property!

You should have looked at the property in a different way, and fix what you could reasonably fix, or pay for a professional clean and carpet doctor or something. It sounds like there's far too much for a brand new place only let for 3 years.

The master bedroom carpet being replaced because you can see indentations from my bed.

Try putting an ice cube in each indentation, then fluff the pile when dry. I was sceptical but it works.

YANBU. I’m a landlord and what you’re describing sounds like normal wear and tear. It’s not reasonable to charge you to repaint every wall, replace the kitchen floor, change the locks or change light fittings.

Totally unreasonable to expect you to replace the bedroom carpet. Indents on the floor from a bed is the definition of wear and tear! The new tenants will also have a bed. I would threaten them with legal action if they keep withholding your deposit on these grounds.

You think you made it better but everyone has different tastes. I would be really annoyed if someone changed the light fittings without permission. Also maybe the landlord had plans for the garden for example to put in a patio or decking etc

When our tenants moved out the letting agents listed every little nick and scratch on anything. Asking us if they wanted them to quote ti put them all right and to keep their deposit to pay for the work.
We told them to give the deposit back we expected some wear and tear. So it might not be the landlord pushing this but the letting agent.

Carpet indents, no. Whole floor retiled, no. Fixed the broke tile, and everything else, yes.

Just because you think you improves the property doesn't mean that is what you actually did. You just altered it to your tastes