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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

What is contact for?

23 replies

Mopitup · 15/12/2019 17:17

Hi.. sorry for my ignorance and I'm new on here. I thought I was told years ago that contact was for the child to spend time with that parent...?

My daughter's father refused to live with me from pregnancy (and told me to move to my mum's) then said he wanted to have one to two days a month with her. Some years later and after he took me to court for all this, he gets the alternate weekend package through the whole year plus a good share of holidays. It's more than he was asking for but his barrister said to push for more- and got it. Now he does everything he can, it seems, for her to spend time with other people as well as him. I have had her for one weekend in the last five as I sometimes have work at weekends so missed my weekend with her. I suggest I collect her (111 mile round trip) earlier so she can see her own friends but he makes her travel to other people's houses to stay the night so she can be with other children. Because if the various people and placdes she stay she now says she's scared of the dark. It's most of all I wonder should the contact simply be quality time with dad or Is it meant to be a lifestyle. Is he missing the point or am I?

Thank you x

OP posts:

Melanin5 · 15/12/2019 17:19

Who are these other people? Are they relatives? And is he there with her?

june2007 · 15/12/2019 17:24

It depends who she is stayig with and why. Contact is about the side oft the family as well. So if she is seeing cousins, aunts, granparents fair enough. But it is worth saying to ex that she needs to know what is going on and who she is staying with in advance as it is confusing for her. But I think you can be going down a dangerous line if you start saying who he can and cannot take her to. (He could say the same to you.)

RobinBlues · 15/12/2019 17:41

I have had her for one weekend in the last five

Sorry this confused me. If he has contact EOW, who is she going to the other weekends?

Also, how old is she?

Butchyrestingface · 15/12/2019 17:44

Have you posted about this under another name?

It all sounds quite familiar. And you are being vague about the people your daughter spends time with.

slashlover · 15/12/2019 18:21

When she's with you does she never see any of your friends or family?

june2007 · 15/12/2019 18:24

It doesn't sound like "contact" Either this sounds like shared parenting to me.

BuggaLugga · 15/12/2019 20:22

Family lawyer here. If he's not there with her and is 'farming her out' to people then you've got good grounds to return to court by applying to vary the existing order.

ManiacalLapwing · 15/12/2019 20:26

Who is she staying with? Are they relatives on his side? It think it is reasonable for him to facilitate contact with grandparent, aunts, uncles, cousins on his side of the family.

ManiacalLapwing · 15/12/2019 20:28

Who is she staying with at weekends when you work?

NobJobWinker · 15/12/2019 20:30

I don't think there is anything unreasonable about your daughter spending time with her Dad's extended family/friends during his contact; assuming he is also present for the majority of the time

Original poster

Mopitup · 16/12/2019 00:04

Thank you all for the comments. No, I havent posted this before. Maybe it's more common than I thought. My daughter is six. She has stayed at my mother's on the work weekends which are occasional (about five a year) but the work was seen as trivial in court when my suggestion was to plan the ex's weekends in for that (as he lives close to my weekend work but not close to me!) He chooses his working times and dates to a large extent and each time I ask well in advance to swap weekends but he forgets.

My daughter has spent some holidays and nights at her father's sister's ex husband's sister's mother's house...That seems rather distant as family goes! I have yet to be introduced to my ex's sister or any of the above-named. Daytimes are spent with ex's mates and their children or neighbours children and their other male friends. I am happy that this is likely to be a happier time for my daughter with children that he has found for her (I presume he is in the same house as her during these visits) rather than solely with him. She said of this weekend that he shouted at her three times but she only cried once. He went to sleep leaving her with nothing to do but look out of the window and wait for her half brother (11) to arrive from his mother's house yesterday, she said. My daughter said that his mother didn't scream at our ex as she has done sometimes in the past. He knows just how to wind us exs up. She kept her cool despite him having taken the eleven year old on a motorbike a few weeks ago knowing that she (and I) would want to be involved in that kind of decision yet we have no say in his dangerous decisions. Ex thinks he was going st 80mph. There seems to be no legal way of being involved in safeguarding the children that we two mothers have brought up alone from birth. The law seems incredible to me as it's not interested in the wealth of little things that all happen, but could all have an effect on the child's emotional wellbeing.

Where might I go for advice on finding out if everything he is doing with her is ok.. e.g. they share a bed regularly now that she claims to be scared from the unusual people and places she's stayed; sharing bathrooms, showers etc; singing songs about willies...Him telling her that his one is big. Is this all ok? I know in context it all is (probably!) but do you have to stop bathing or something at age 7? Bedsharing daughter and dad who has never lived with her? Any legal age or anything?

My original question came about as I thought I remembered the Health Visitor saying the parent time was quality time meant for the parent and child only. Maybe I have remembered wrongly or maybe she's behind the times..!

Thank you x

OP posts:

DangerMouse17 · 16/12/2019 00:10

Still dont understand why she's only been with you one weekend out of five recently?

The whole set up sounds odd and not in the best interests of your child to be perfectly honest. Why dont you so something about it?

DangerMouse17 · 16/12/2019 00:11

Do something*

Original poster

Mopitup · 16/12/2019 00:40

This weekend was his so looking back over the past five weekends:

Wkend 1 - dad
Wkend 2 - My mum (I worked)
Wkend 3 - dad
Wkend 4 - me!
Wkend 5 - dad

Yes I am grateful that she lives with me so I mustn't sound ungrateful. I am figuring out what to do about it as any money I put in for legal effort you can multiply by ten he would put in- as he was happy to spend an enormous amount last time. I keep waiting too as his latest scheme is to move to Portugal to evade tax.... no idea if he'll then have to have her there for holidays and if I'll have to let her go. That fills me with some dread as she gets injured in his care far more often than seems right. They tell me injuries happen and in court I was told to chillax about her running age 1 in new crocs around a dimly lit car park with him chasing her when her tooth went through her lip etc. 🤣

So I'm not sure what to do about it all or if there is any support for all this.

Do you mean go to court, or something else, DangerMouse17?

OP posts:

Original poster

Mopitup · 16/12/2019 01:05

My daughter keeps saying to me what she said when she was three.. She wants some days with her father and all nights with me. I believe she knows what she means. Would a court alter an order this dramatically if they heard her repeat what she said at the time of court when she was three? I doubt it! Oddly with the social worker who we got to help out with the Family Assistance Order for a year, the main aim was to ascertain my daughter's wishes and feelings but the Services couldnt tell me why we were doing this and what benefit it would have for her or for anyone. I'm still wondering what the Wishes and Feelings meetings were for.... 🤔

OP posts:

Original poster

Mopitup · 16/12/2019 01:19

Do child psychologists ever go to court with their opinions of what is in the best interest of a child with whom they have been working?

Any recommendations for maybe a play psychologist to keep an eye on her mental health anyway, or is that the job of a school nurse or someone? Can't believe I've been wondering these things for years!

OP posts:

MuffleKerfuffleUSnuffleWuffle · 16/12/2019 01:38

DangerMouse17Still : Still dont understand why she's only been with you one weekend out of five recently?

I've read the thread once. I understand how and why! It's not that hard to read; it's explained simply, why are you struggling.

Mopitup are you more worried about your ex showering and sleeping with his daughter than these random visits?

MrsJoshNavidi · 16/12/2019 01:50

If you add 1 weekend onto that chain of 5 though, it will be equal with her father.

Wkend 1 - dad
Wkend 2 - My mum (I worked)
Wkend 3 - dad
Wkend 4 - me!
Wkend 5 - dad
weekend 7- you

It's not the father's fault she spent one of your weekends with your mother.
(And incidentally, it seems ok for you to leave her with other family members, even though you don't like him doing it)

DangerMouse17 · 16/12/2019 02:03

There is no need to be rude MuffleKerfuffleUSnuffleWuffle. I've had a long day. Not sure why you're struggling to be civil.

Anyway, back to the OP...

I think that you can speak to him about this and your concerns. He doesnt have to listen mind you, and if he takes her to family and friends then not a lot you can do unless she is suffering harm. You mention him being Portuguese and I've known many, im stereotyping here so apologies...but they are all over the place and hugely social. Kids up late with the adults etc and very tactile, so it sounds a bit like that really. I dont think its court you need now but an open conversation and setting of rules to make your daughter more comfortable. E.g. I dont think bed sharing is neccessarily a problem with her dad, but if she feels odd then he needs to respect that and let her have her own space etc. Or if she wants less "sleepovers" at his maybe that could be broached.

Would he listen?

june2007 · 16/12/2019 13:35

At 7 she may still need some support/supervision with bathing, and singing songs about body parts sounds like general playground nonsence. You do need to discuss your concearns. Te motorbike thing. The prob for me is not an 11yr old riding pillion but the speed.

Areyoufree · 16/12/2019 13:52

No legal ages for any of those things. My 8 year old still occasionally climbs into bed with us, and my 6 year old is a regular bed-sharer. If I am away, they will still crawl in with my husband - wouldn't even cross my mind to worry about it. He also still baths my 8 year old daughter (although we emphasise body autonomy, so she is in charge of washing herself).

I think you have to be honest with yourself. Are your worries based on your dislike of your ex, or is there something else? Obviously no-one on here can tell you if your worries are based on anything substantial or not. The only thing on here that hints at a red flag for me, is your concern (and very possibly, your daughter's fear of the dark - especially as it seems to be a relatively recent thing), so, as I say, you need to honestly assess if this is some uneasy instinct sending warnings, or arises from the break down in relationship between you and your ex.

Original poster

Mopitup · 16/12/2019 15:17

Thank you all again for your thoughts. The health visitor recommended Women's Aid to me so I spent about a year supported by them. Some support and some cause for anxiety for me about what might be going on came out of this. I was told off by them for allowing him to take her to the men's changing rooms as they were swimming and I wasn't, for example. In court though, what WA had seen as terrible when he drew a penis in flour and water at a children's messy play, his barrister asked me what was wrong with that 🤣! So yes, I've been stirred up to maybe worry about lots of things.

I asked him to support the routine etc and he tells me our lives and routines and everything else is totally separate and none of eachothers business. Tricky..

OP posts:

june2007 · 17/12/2019 23:05

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a daad taking a child (under 7 I assume.) To change in male changing rooms. What is a single DAd expected to do. you would take a boy into girls changing rooms. The cock and balls just sounds like dad being really imature and trying to be funny. (yes inappropriate.)

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