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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if people washed their hands properly norovirus/flu etc would be rare

112 replies

KingaRoo · 13/12/2019 19:10

I am horrified by the amount of both adults and children I've seen recently who either "wash" their hands without soap or literally squirt on a bit of soap and then rinse it off? You need to have soap bubbles on your hands for at least 30 seconds and properly get into all the nooks and crevices for hand washing to be effective.

My DH is immune compromised and I am living in fear of him catching the various vomiting bugs/coughs and colds going around at the moment.

We had a small party at our house recently and due to DH's illness asked them to wash hands when they arrived. I would guess around 1 in 12 people actually washed their hands properly. And yes I was watching! Felt too shy to ask them to do it again properly although probably should have done...

School have so many illnesses going around at the moment. Why don't they teach the children how to wash their hands properly? It would be in their own interests. So many teachers and pupils are off at the moment.

Would also save the NHS some money!!

OP posts:
Original poster
KingaRoo · 13/12/2019 20:44

"Handwashing doesn't help for this".

I despair!!!

OP posts:
EmmiJay · 13/12/2019 20:47

I was just discussing this. I've told DD to wash her hands about 864565 times this week whilst she recovers from this very bug. (I'm neurotic about hygiene anyway but this week was anoyher level) I now carry hand wipes and give her a quick wipe when she gets out of class. I also feel the cleaners in schools need to be more thorough at this time of year especially when its known the kids drop like flies from it. 11 kids were out of her class this week and I bet you nothings been cleaned properly.

Andysbestadventure · 13/12/2019 20:48

Fyi only Bleach kills Norovirus. So handwashing is good but doesnt do much for it unless you bleach the shit out of your house.

Original poster
KingaRoo · 13/12/2019 20:49

From the NHS website:

"Norovirus can spread very easily.

You can catch norovirus from:

close contact with someone with norovirustouching surfaces or objects that have the virus on them, then touching your moutheating food that's been prepared or handled by someone with norovirus

Washing your hands frequently with soap and water is the best way to stop it spreading. Alcohol hand gels do not kill norovirus."

OP posts:
HeyPizza · 13/12/2019 20:52

Also really think we shouldn't shake hands, prime germ-sharing territory! And need to learn as a society to cough and sneeze into our elbows Grin

TheWinterCaillech · 13/12/2019 20:55

Schools do teach handwashing, but guess what? We don’t have enough staff to supervise every child to check that they implement what they have been taught. Perhaps parents could take over that task?

pinkstripeycat · 13/12/2019 20:57

I’ve seen people at work leaving the toilet without washing hands!

Pfefferkuchen · 13/12/2019 21:02

I have seen plenty of people washing their hands but then grabbing the door handle on the way out, so what can you do!

Milsplus3 · 13/12/2019 21:24

YANBU I agree with you completely, it’s shocking how many adults don’t know how to effectively wash their hands.
We rarely get ill, I keep on top of cleaning germy things people usually miss (door handles etc) and we wash our hands as soon as we get home from anywhere too to try and avoid bringing anything in.
Airborne illnesses are different but good hygiene can and does prevent it long term. I’ve never bought into the ‘germs are good’ myself, I was unwell throughout most of my childhood because of this mindset and as soon as I was old enough and took care of my home and myself my immune system improved instantly.
confused by a friend recently whose children are having reoccurring illnesses for 3 months, to find none of them wash their hands, and she can’t work out why it keeps coming back Hmm
I wouldn’t find it rude if you asked me to rewash my hands, in your husbands circumstances you’re entitled to expect good hygiene for his health and good friends and families will respect that.

ShinyGiratina · 13/12/2019 21:31

Proper handwashing dislodges the germs (bacterial and viral) whereas hand gels are usually just bactierial and can encourage the development of resistant varieties.

There will still be air borne transmission and it's not always possible to handwash to avoid all physical transmission, but more widespread, thorough handwashing would reduce a lot of infection.

Straycatstrut · 13/12/2019 21:40

YADefinitelyNBU

I'm particular about handwashing. After the loo I always feel like my hands are covered in filth unless I use hot water and soap. I constantly wash my hands actually - just realised I do it if I go outside for any reason and then come back in. I very rarely get ill, haven't had a sickness bug in years, even with 2 young kids. Eldest is 7 and this has rubbed off on him now and he hasn't been ill this year even with 90 odd kids off & half the early years teachers in his school last week.

Take alcohol gel out with me on dog walks for after poop-picking up but still can't wait until I can get home and thoroughly wash them!

Serenbunny · 13/12/2019 22:01

Eradicating germs and over cleaning is one of the reasons for the explosion in severe allergies though. Noro and flu aren't fun and occasionally have long term complications but severe food allergies and severe asthma are life long debilitating and are lethal. Imagine what you are creating for the next generation as you stand over your guests and the public scrutinizing their hand wash techniques.

Original poster
KingaRoo · 14/12/2019 07:52

Hmmm I don't think I'm single-handedly creating a world of severe allergies by asking people to wash their hands to protect my immuno-suppressed DH from noro and flu!

Read the NHS advice! Seems to be a lot of misinformed people about how these things spread...

OP posts:
ShinyMe · 14/12/2019 08:01

Sorry to be too graphic, but when I had norovirus a few years ago, it was pouring out of me at both ends uncontrollably, I imagine the germs got everywhere including on floors and walls and cleaning cloths, clothes, bedding, etc. Washing my hands helped, but I can't see how I could have avoided spreading some of the germs, short of burning the whole house down and submerging myself in dettol for a week.

Vulpine · 14/12/2019 08:02

My family all have really robust immune systems and dont pick up many illnesses. We wash hands but i am not fastidious about it at all and i certainly dont monitor how my kids do it.

Aragog · 14/12/2019 09:47

Why don't they teach the children how to wash their hands

Why? Because on top of everything else schools don't really have the time.

We do cover hygiene and hand washing when talking with children and in some topics, and we remind them about hand washing before meals and eating and after going to the toilet. But we don't have the man power to stand and supervise 30 children doing this every time I'm afraid.

I'm also immunosuppressed and I do try and be careful with my own hygiene. I wash my hands carefully and top up with the feels. I keep my work desk and the tech I use clean regularly, etc. I had to have an op earlier this term so was obsessed before that as needed to not be ill so it could go ahead.

I have to take charge of my own hygiene as I know I can't really do much about the 270 4-7 years olds I teach every week. This half term I've had children be sick on me, on the tech in my room, on the floor, I've had so many children cough and splutter over me, etc. That's never going to change. So far this term I've kept fairly healthy. I've had the odd dodgy stomach but nothing actually develop further.

I'm amazed really as our November sickness records are way higher than any previous years, with so many children and staff off with sickness bugs.

ArkAtEee · 14/12/2019 10:35

Some people seem to have heard of the 'hygiene hypothesis' and interpreted that as personal hygiene. It's not that, it's really about 'gut hygiene', i.e. depletion of friendly bacteria through antibiotic misuse. To quote from the Wikipedia article, "Reducing one's personal hygiene, such as not washing hands before eating, is expected to simply increase the risk of infection without having any impact on allergies or immune disorders".

Colds and vomiting illnesses have been associated as 'trigger events' for the development of autoimmune diseases in genetically susceptible individuals, hence why sometimes one identical twin will have an illness and not the other. So hand-hygiene and other sensible precautions against catching these minor illness are a good idea. Not to mention, they can be devastating to the immunocompromised as the OP says.

NotwhereIshouldbe · 14/12/2019 10:48

I’m out and about for my job and use public loos a lot and was shocked at the number of people who don’t wash their hands after using the toilet!! Waiting for a colleague I would be watching people leaving and I would say 60% would walk straight out the door! MIL definitely doesn’t wash her hands after using the loo as she has a separate toilet to her bathroom and you hear her flush the loo and come straight downstairs! I have to disinfect all the door handles and switches in my house after she visits 😂

viccat · 14/12/2019 10:57

I'm always surprised that so many people don't wash their hands when they come home from shopping, work, school or public transport. My parents were both in medical professions and the first thing we all did when coming home was to wash our hands (and again before cooking, eating, after going to the loo etc. of course).

mrsbyers · 14/12/2019 11:00

I’m immunocompromised and wouldn’t ever think to force people around me to wash their hands or insist I watch them do it - I take my own precautions and accept a lot of the risk is outside of my control

geekone · 14/12/2019 11:15

My DH and DS got noro after just sitting in a room with a boy who was ill (his was not sever so didn’t realise it was noro. 4 hours later DS (aged 1 at the time) stinky runny nappies, 2 hours later vomiting. DH an hour after that. I was there too and didn’t catch it I spent the next 2 days (Christmas and Boxing Day oh joy) cleaning up after them and I didn’t catch it. They definitely didn’t touch anything I didn’t so not sure hand washing would have helped. Still every little thing we can do.

HRH2020 · 14/12/2019 11:17

I'm an emetophobe and I definitely understand how you catch viruses! We all caught noro last year after a friend brought her toddler who had "been really sick yesterday but seems alright today". He'd been touching the kitchen tap and our faces etc.
I insist on washing hands when coming in from outside, coat the kids in anti viral hand foam before they leave for school and use a lot of bleach.

YANBU

Haworthia · 14/12/2019 11:20

Hand washing helps but stupid, selfish people flouting the 48 hour rule is the biggest cause.

halcyondays · 14/12/2019 11:21

Some people, both adults and children, don’t even wash their hands at all after the toilet. You see them coming out of cubicles and going out without so much as running their hands under the tap. It’s grim.

SnowyChristmasTree · 14/12/2019 11:23

Yanbu. The amount of people I've seen just walk out of the toilet without even washing their hands at all, or just rinsing with water infuriates me.

Then there's the stupid idiots who go into work/school with sickness and diarrhoea.

My kids have had sickness and my in laws have still turned up to visit despite us warning them away. Sheer stupidity.

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