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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sorry another election thread, but this one is for small business owners.

47 replies

Sammi38 · 12/12/2019 09:44

Anyone else own a small business, how are you feeling about the election?

What do you feel about Labours tax proposals for those of us that own our own businesses?

OP posts:
ghostyslovesheets · 12/12/2019 09:48

My ex husband runs a successful small business - he's voting Labour - hth

Comefromaway · 12/12/2019 09:50

My parents do and employ around 30 people including myself. They are not rich (we are all well under the £80k marker) but have managed to stay afloat in difficult times where others are struggling.

They think that Labour's proposals will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and they will fold with a loss of jobs which considering they have just taken on a number of people who have lost their jobs through redundancy with other companies is a bit gutting.

This causes me a dilemmaas I know a vote for teh Copnservatives will be devasting for the country in one way but that Labour will be equally as devastating in another.

LaurieFairyCake · 12/12/2019 10:00

I have a small business and firmly believe that it's not a proper business if you 'can't afford' to pay people properly.

Too many exploitative, non viable businesses around Hmm

Will be happily voting Labour for small business

nestisflown · 12/12/2019 10:03

I agree with @lauriefairycake . It sounds as though @comefromaway parents either don't have a viable business model or need help managing it.

Comefromaway · 12/12/2019 10:05

It’s not paying people properly that the issue for many (no one here is on less than £11 per hour. It’s all the other stuff re corporation tax, days off without losing pay etc.

Original poster
Sammi38 · 12/12/2019 10:11

It’s not about paying people properly though. It’s the corporation tax, the increasing tax on dividends.

If a labour mp earns £79,000k their take home pay would remain unchanged, but if a business owner earns the same, they pay around £6k more in tax. At least make it equal.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sammi38 · 12/12/2019 10:12

We pay people well above living wage as it’s a skilled area of work.

OP posts:
BuckingFrolics · 12/12/2019 10:19

Those taxes are disproportionately low and have been for years. Dividends were a way of allowing owners of capital to be rewarded far in excess of what frankly was fair.

It's high time corporation tax and dividend taxes increased. And I say that as the owner of a business that is about to move into the "M" category of SME.

Original poster
Sammi38 · 12/12/2019 10:23

@BuckingFrolics yes you may be right, but I do think it will hit some people hard.

OP posts:
Iggly · 12/12/2019 10:26

I have a small business and firmly believe that it's not a proper business if you 'can't afford' to pay people properly

^this

but if a business owner earns the same, they pay around £6k more in tax. At least make it equal

Why equal? Paying yourself dividends from a
company you own and control is not the same as receiving a salary where you just don’t have that control.

Business owners should be protected where they are generating growth for the economy but if they’re doing it off the backs of zero-hour contracts and insufficient wages then they deserve to go under.

Comefromaway · 12/12/2019 10:30

Pensions hit us (owners and staff).

We had a really good company pension company paid 3% staff paid 2%. They cold pay more if they wanted to. It was managed by an IFA and individuals were advised accordingly about investments. People who had worked here 20 years build up a really good pension fund.

Then Auto enrolment came in and it wasn't compliant so we had to change. The current pension is a one size fits all job (IFA said it was the best compliant one he could find) and it isn't managed the same way. The company felt it was unfair to stop contributing 3% so went in at the higher level, the downside being that lots of people then opted out becasue they couldn't afford the higher contributions (think its now 5%). The new pension isn't giving any where near as good returns.

Original poster
Sammi38 · 12/12/2019 10:32

Iggly. I agree that businesses that exploit and use zero hour contracts should not be able to operate.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 12/12/2019 10:34

My parent's company in 25 years have only ever once employed someone on zero hours. It was a student who worked during the summer holidays and the odd week or so at Christmas.

fivesecondrule · 12/12/2019 10:38

I have a small business and it's the 30 hour week that's concerning me. I already pay above industry wages so the NMW doesn't affect the business but when you consider I will be getting less hours out of my staff I'm really getting hit twice. I'll either have to take on more staff or work the extra hours myself.

Deathgrip · 12/12/2019 10:40

Very small business, limited company. We have both voted Labour. It will cost us more but it’s worth it.

Deathgrip · 12/12/2019 10:41

It’s not a 30 hour week. It’s taking the definition of full time from 35 hrs to 32 hrs over the next decade. Doesn’t mean that everyone will work 32 hours just as everyone doesn’t work 35 hours now.

averylongtimeago · 12/12/2019 10:44

My DH and DS have a small building business- we are all voting labour.

Comefromaway · 12/12/2019 10:55

How can a company pay people the same amount of money to work 32 hours as they are currently paying them to work 35 hours (or 38.5 in our case). I just don't see how this can be.

Hingeandbracket · 12/12/2019 11:01

No party is a friend of small business- big companies are allowed to pay the amount of tax they feel like and negotiate with HMRC. We have no choice and all the political parties listen to HMRC which is a cosy racket run by employees and management consultants.

Inliverpool1 · 12/12/2019 11:04

At least 6 of my small business friends and I are voting labour. We need people who spend rather than save to have money in their pockets

goodwinter · 12/12/2019 11:06

@comefromaway the theory is that people will get the same amount done in a bit less time, and be happier, healthier, and ultimately more productive for having an extra day off work. This has been trialled in a few places and seems positive, but I think would be more applicable to office jobs and less so to retail etc, just due to the nature of the roles.

However, I'm all for it, especially with automation of a lot of roles coming shortly - there will be much less work to go around in a lot of sectors, and naturally we should need to work fewer hours.

In theory we should all be working much fewer hours by now anyway as productivity has already increased greatly as technology has improved over decades, but our working culture just hasn't caught up.

CendrillonSings · 12/12/2019 11:06

They would be fucking devastating. Dividend taxation alone would double!

Inliverpool1 · 12/12/2019 11:07

11:06 CendrillonSings - good !

StarUtopia · 12/12/2019 11:10

That's precisely why I'm voting conservative.

Really can't see why anyone in their right mind would want a Labour government?

FourForYouGlenCoco · 12/12/2019 11:14

Small business owner here, voting Labour. It might be worse for me personally in a few ways but I’m willing to take that hit in order not to throw half the fucking country under the bus. I also suspect that under the Tories, I would still come out worse overall thanks to spiralling cost of living, etc etc - might save a few quid on corporation tax but it’ll be cancelled out by the vastly increased costs of every other fucking thing.
I’m also in sector that, under Labour’s proposals, will be much better funded anyway so in theory the extra funding will cancel out the additional staffing requirements. But tbh even if they didn’t I’d still be happy to pay my staff enough that they can actually afford to live 🤷‍♀️ if I can’t afford them, I shouldn’t have them!