To think empathy is an important element of dismantling toxic masculinity?

[Alanis126]

Firstly I am absolutely no apologist for the excrescences of toxix masculinity, from rape culture to mansplaining to the appalling treatment of women on social media. I had a conversation with a male friend recently. I suppose on balance (I have like others had bad experiences too) I would not want to have been born anything other than female. I am aware that many men, including some of those who exhibit toxic behaviour, but also those who don't, suffer from the restrictions that patriarchy puts on them. Many men I have known have for example already had serious health problems related to stress fromjobs they took on from a need to be a provider. Others have taken their own lives. Others are isolated and depressed. I am well aware that women are in the front line of many of the appalling things that men do. I just wonder, as many of them seem unable to offer empathy to each other, if it might help matters if therr was a greater vocalisation of empathy with the struggles men face? If the decent ones felt less alone maybe the dividend would be positive for everyone?

I am not sure if I understand what you are saying. Do you think that men are generally less empathic then females?

What exactly do you mean by toxic masculinity?

On the one hand I completely agree with you and feel we're not going to get anywhere without an open and empathic dialogue, and acknowledging that it's not easy for any of us and we need to listen and be compassionate.

On the other hand I'm so fucking mad at them and their privilege and sense of entitlement and the way they treat us that I think they can go fuck themselves.

@Jiggles101 I really do not think all men have an sense of entitlement... and there are lots of entitled women on this world. As a mother of boys (and a daughter) it makes me sad that some people seem to have a deep dislike of men.

*On the one hand I completely agree with you and feel we're not going to get anywhere without an open and empathic dialogue, and acknowledging that it's not easy for any of us and we need to listen and be compassionate.

On the other hand I'm so fucking mad at them and their privilege and sense of entitlement and the way they treat us that I think they can go fuck themselves*
I think I get this. I read Grayson Perry's book about masculinity last year. The thought that chimed was that, rightly or wrongly, to give up male privilege there will need to be some kind of reward or inducement. For me, access to a full emotional range, not being always expected to be a stoic breadwinner ready to die in war, and perhaps reduced suicide rates should be inducement enough. Amd yes the appalling behaviour of a significant number of men historically makes this seem a sacrifice too far of women at times. As far as I can see, people are.not born entitled, abusive or harassing, so perhaps with a fundamental change in the way children are raised, plus as older generations of men die off, we might just reach a good place for women to be.

I am a mother to a boy too - I don't 'deeply dislike' them all on an individual level. But working in the field of sexual trauma for the last 10 years certainly highlights their failings as a class.

@Jiggles101 but there are also WOMEN who sexually abuse other persons and some of them even abuse boys.