Living in a 'safe seat' - "My vote doesn't count"

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

A young woman said this on the Question Time special last night. She was in an audience consisting only of people aged under 30, so I don't know how much under 30 she was, but I've heard other people saying this too.

Yes, it's frustrating - I live in a constituency which is held by a very senior Tory and it is very much considered a safe seat.

However, some people don't seem to understand that a seat isn't arbitrarily decided and officially reserved as a guaranteed win for one party - it's like that because every person's vote does count, exactly the same as in the diciest of marginals, but if a large majority of voters in the same constituency invariably choose to vote the same way, leaving you in the minority, then what they choose will win. Your vote did count - to reduce the majority by one vote - it's just that, in a first-past-the-post system, there can only be one winner.

By contrast from a constituency-based election, the man from the SNP also seemed unable to grasp the basics of a referendum, when he complained that Scotland had voted to remain in the EU but was being denied this and thus it was not democracy. As Scotland had already previously voted to stay in the UK, each adult in Scotland, like in the rest of the UK, had exactly one vote. As a city/region, London voted to remain, but didn't get the majority wish, because the referendum was held across the UK as a single whole.

It seems to be a widely-held conspiracy that we do whatever England wants, but whenever UK-wide issues are voted on, whether on a constituency or an individual basis, of course 85% of the say is going to come from where 85% of the people happen to live. Yes, we have four home nations, but how would it possibly have been fair if every Scottish/Welsh/NI vote in the referendum had counted for 6 times as much as every English vote? Even if we had done it on a home nation basis, it was still two either way.

Meanwhile, somebody in the audience complained at not having had ONE vote in the Brexit referendum (as an under-18 at the time) and yet their grandparents (plural and obviously both over 18) had been allowed TWO votes, so how could this possibly be democracy?!

If you don't like the system or if you want national independence, then great - campaign and vote whenever able to change it. But democracy, for good or bad, hasn't been denied to you just because more people in your constituency or country wanted something different from you - this is exactly what democracy is, in fact.

Am I missing something here? Do a lot of people think that democracy = what they as an individual want - or do they have a valid point?

You aren't missing something.

But you have assumed FPTP=democracy and therefore fair. It's a skewed system as all systems are which is a form of control to maintain the status quo.

I live in Rushclifffe, and the vast majority of the constituency is made up of wealthy, rural, old people, held by the conservatives since 1950, save for one term. Even if every voter who didn't vote conservative voted for one other party, they still wouldn't be close to ousting them. Ergo, a vote against them is pretty pointless.

The conservative MP who wins here isn't going to care that some people didn't vote for them, they're looking out for the majority that did, and will again.

Surely in a safe seat, a vote for the majority party is equally as 'pointless' since they'll win either way..?!

The funding that opposition parties get is partly determined by their vote share (I only recently learnt this) so there is still a 'point' to voting though

But you have assumed FPTP=democracy and therefore fair. It's a skewed system as all systems are which is a form of control to maintain the status quo.

Sorry, I didn't make that very clear. I agree with you. I don't think that FPTP is the only way, or indeed the best way. I suppose it's just that it's our current longstanding version of democracy and the young woman on QT seemed to think that it was only because she lived in a safe seat that her vote under the current system didn't count. She wasn't complaining about the constituency-based voting system, which I agree is open to abuse and manipulation - I may be wrong, but I don't think it would have crossed her mind as being an issue had she lived in a marginal constituency.

I wonder what the best alternative would be, though? For Yes/No decisions like Brexit, I don't see how it can be made any fairer than one-person-one-vote.

For general government, I would prefer to move away from party politics entirely (although I know this would never happen) as it kind of combines the worst aspects of both the constituency/FPTP and referendum systems.

If we were to go with one-person-one-equal-vote for general elections, we would have to keep the parties, but I don't see why parties couldn't be awarded one place in government per every XXX number of votes they receive, their choice as to whom they choose, with the leader of the one winning a majority being PM, but a much less powerful one.

Alternatively, if we kept it local and constituency based, I would say every potential candidate (who must have lived for 10 years in the constituency) should have to stand on their own independent merits and not be allowed to officially be part of any party. Indeed, parties shouldn't be allowed to exist as they are effectively cartels. Yes, it would still be FPTP, but only on a local basis.

At the moment, the candidates put through their local leaflets and hold surgeries with their own stated priorities and desires for the area, but then end up following whatever national party line anyway. In fact, only the smaller parties tend to actually campaign locally - mostly, the 'big 2' don't even bother doing much on a local basis. Nobody cares about voting for Jane Smith, because she's passionate about this or for John Robinson, because he's determined to make that happen; it's just pick red or blue or another option that (in England anyway) won't get anywhere.

Even the whole way people talk about voting for Boris or for Corbyn when, in reality, only people in two out of 650 constituencies will actually be able to vote for either of these men.

Thanks, Sunsetsunrise1527 - very good point indeed.

FPTP needs to go.

Being in the Windsor constituency we have no hope of outing the Conservatives.

Even if every voter who didn't vote conservative voted for one other party, they still wouldn't be close to ousting them. Ergo, a vote against them is pretty pointless.

Oh, yes, it's pointless - and until this election, a vote for Ken was (IMHO) also a vote endorsing big tobacco companies. But pointless doesn't mean that it counts for nothing, though.

If you had a hundred filthy tiles on your bathroom wall, it would be pointless only cleaning one of them, but it doesn't mean that having done 1% of the job has counted for absolutely nothing. If you had the time, inclination and circumstances to only do that 1%, but to do it a hundred times, you'd have done a great job; but if you did no tiles a hundred times - THAT counts for nothing!

I live in a safe Labour seat.

I still vote because I think it’s important but pigs will fly before the seat turns... so ...

Surely in a safe seat, a vote for the majority party is equally as 'pointless' since they'll win either way..?!

Yes, that's my thinking too - it's a bit like a toddler in the back seat, also driving by using their own toy wheel. However carefully and thoughtfully (or not) they do it, they'll still end up in exactly the same place as the adult in the front seat steered to regardless

I live in safe Tory seat - been Tory for over 120 years.
I still vote because I always will vote, but I do understand why some people will feel that it is pointless to do so in an area like this.

I live in a safe Labour seat held by a well known long standing Labour MP. I vote Labour so it doesn’t affect me but I can see why it annoys others who don’t.

Having said that, some supposedly safe seats have been overturned in recent years. Sheffield Hallam was a big example of that.

I live in a safe tory seat, but I will still vote, and I'd never vote tory.
I'm hoping this time might be different because the tories have been in power for a decade and they've sucked at it. So hopefully some of their regular voters will want a change.
Either way, voting is important to me.

We live in Bournemouth ,which is considered a safe Tory seat . I will go and vote because of Suffrage and so on .However I always feel its a bit of a waste of time TBH!

Even if every voter who didn't vote conservative voted for one other party, they still wouldn't be close to ousting them. This is really depressing - is it calculated on the number of voters who COULD turn out (including eligible but unregistered), or the number who actually DID?

My Labour MP got nearly 70% of the vote at the last election - voter turnout was also 70%. So I think I'm right to say that even if every eligible voter turned out and voted for a single non-Labour candidate, Labour would still win (that's if all the people who voted Labour in 2017 voted Labour again on Thursday, which is not necessarily a given with the Brexit Factor...)

I disagree that the man from Scotland doesn’t understand democracy. One of the main arguments in the Scottish Independence referendum was that it would force Scotland out of Europe. It was one of the key reasons for my no vote. Scotland is now being dragged out largely due to an English vote - Scotland’s voice has been completely ignored. In addition Westminster plans to control devolved powers post Brexit - how is that democratic???

What had been a real eye opener in this whole fiasco is how mush disdain is held in the two main Westminster parties re the elected Scottish MPs.

It was said a few times on the Santa vs. Father Christmas thread that it highlighted the narrow views of many - very true with many insulting and derogatory comments against parts of the U.K.

The FPTP system is so broken. Brexit will not reunite us.

That said everyone shd vote - hopefully a few surprises will be announce in the early hours of Friday morning.

I live in a safe Tory seat (25,000 majority)
Despite my Labour voting instincts I'll be voting monster raving loony to help him get his deposit back

FPTP is the problem. It needs to go because it favours incumbents, it polarises, it creates situations where any vote for any but the leading two candidates is wasted , it forces people to vote tactically rather than for the candidate they actually support etc etc.

It won’t be abolished, however, because it is not in the interests of Labour or the Tories to change it.

If every person who didn’t vote in the last general election all voted for, say, greens (let’s assume they had enough candidates) then greens would have won. The amount of people who abstained from voting was higher than the amount who voted Tory.

Not necessarily true @ethelfleda, those votes would have to be concentrated in the seats where a change was possible. In my constituency, like I said, even if every eligible voter turned out and voted Green, Labour would still win if their own support held.

MissSueFlay It was all voters who did turn up to vote, but turnout was 78%, I cba to do the maths, but instinct tells me it wouldn't effect the decision.

I do understand the argument that you have to try, but it's hard not to feel like it's pointless. I'll still drag myself out to vote, and rant about why we do it to the dc, but it still feels hopeless and futile.

I live in a safe seat with a comfortably over 10,000 majority. If all the Labour, Lib Dem and Green voters stood together, they still would not have a majority. The demographic is dominated by traditionally Conservative, older, white people who are regular voters and highly unlikely to change their vote en-mass.

I've been toying with spoil or squandering my vote on Lib Dem who I'm really not in love with at the moment, and it really doesn't make a jot of difference to the outcome as there are not enough floating voters to sway a change in this constitency. You could put the Lib Dem and Green voters together in a secondary school and have plenty of spare chairs.

Less than 1 mile away and my vote would have value. In this decade it has been the most marginal seat in the country by 41 votes. This election the current MP is standing independently from their former party and the vote is split. The outcome is very open.

It angers me that different votes matter more than others. It angers me that my consituency was created purely to make a safe seat and that my area was severed off from its natural boundary and a constituency that has more influence.

One of the factors swaying me towards Lib Dem rather than making an empty protest of a spoiled vote is that they do campaign for reform of the voting system, because at the moment, I'm struggling with several of their policies. But hey ho, my vote matters less than a whinge on MN anyway.

I will however go to the polling station because I have a hard-earned right to vote and a chance to choose between Shit, Shitter, Really Shitty and WTF, and that's more than billions of people on this planet.

Im in a safe seat, I have seen who i should vote for 'tactically' and i swore i would never vote for them. So this makes it awkward!!!
It makes it very difficult to summon up the energy to bother frankly

Nothing is ever totally safe. I lived in Kensington and thought it was pointless. Last election Emma Dent Coad took it for Labour for the first time ever. I thought it was impossible!

YANBU at all.

If you're someone who's thinking "there's no point in voting because it's a safe seat" - by that logic there's no point in anyone in your constituency voting and we may as well do away with the whole thing and just give the seat to the current incumbent.

I'd hope no-one considers that an option.

Every vote is important. Whether it's for a political party of any colour or an independent or a spoiled ballot.

The only wasted vote is the one you don't cast.

I live in a Tory safe seat but loads of farmers and landowners etc ( who get LOTS OF EU subsidies) are not voting for torys as they don't want Brexit!

I live in what used to be a safe seat. The Tories got in again last time but the margin was just over 600 votes. Change is possible.

I really hope we out the fucker this time.