To think school shouldn’t be charging for this?

[Indella]

Our school has a habit of expecting parental contributions for everything possible but the latest 2 things we’ve had letters about I don’t think falls under what a school can charge for.

The first one is my child has now started the compulsory school swimming lessons. These are part of the curriculum and so can’t be charged for. However parents have to pay £3 per child, per week for the transport to the swimming lessons. Is this not the school’s responsibility to fund as the swimming lessons are compulsory?

The second one is an “art and crafts day”. Letter says children will be spending the day, still in school, doing Christmas themed arts and crafts. They have asked for £12 per child for the materials. This is being held at school, in school hours and is instead of the normal lessons. I legally have to send my child to school so it’s compulsory. Letter doesn’t say voluntary contribution so I assume again we have no choice but to pay but surely the school can do arts and crafts with the children that don’t cost so much. 28 children in the class so £336 of art supplies! Sounds like they are using parents to re-stock supplies for the year.

I know they are not huge amounts but add that to the fact we paid £3 each entry to the school Christmas fair (including having to pay for the accompanying parent) and £10 each for tickets to watch the Christmas performance. Plus the never ending non-uniform days it’s really starting to add up and it feels like the school are simply using parental contributions to fund what should be covered by the school.

AIBU to think these things shouldn’t be charged for?

I'm part of an active and successful PTA and we're now asked to pay for things which the school should and used to fund but simply can't anymore.

Secure fencing, online subscriptions, playground murals, Christmas crafts...the list goes on. Luckily the PTA is successful in raising funds so we are able to grant a lot of these requests. But the government should be properly funding many of these.

Vote on Thursday for the party that doesn't support such cuts!

You should be grateful they get schooled and be willing to pay whatever it takes. In other countries there’s no such thing as free education. Think yourself lucky.

£12 for art supplies is a rip off. I think you would be in a minority to think it's reasonable. Yes,schools are underfunded but getting art supplies does not cost £300 per class!

Local school expects adult to deliver child to swimming pool for 8.30 am but school takes them back to school in coach. Does charge £2.00 for coach cost.

treatmatrix it’s not a free education here, either. I’ve paid taxes for over 35 years to pay for the education of children in the U.K. and I expect them to get an education in line with the provisions of our government - I.e. one that is free at point of service. Not one the parents are expected to subsidise at the whim of the headteacher.

I couldn't believe today when my daughter told me, my granddaughters school hired a private company to be on the doors at a rural church. A parent had forgotten her ticket and was not allowed entry. Like she said " when has a reception class nativity needed bouncers"
I wonder how much they paid the 'Private Company'

Conversely, we had 135 in the audience for the nativity today. 110 tickets were sold.

@BoomBoomsCousin there is an additional cost associated with transport. Children on FSMs have these costs funded by the school and, as others have said, the school can only ask for the transport cost, it can't demand it and deny a child a place if their parents don't cough up.

There is no additional cost associated with parents coming to watch a school play. Drama is part of the nation curriculum. Performance is an essential component of drama. The idea that parents should have to fork out £10 per ticket to watch their own kids is distasteful. I can understand a donation jar with a suggested contribution of a few quid, but I cannot understand why a school would cause some parents anxiety - possibly even forcing them to decided whether they can afford to go. There is no way my local primary would do that. They are extremely cognisant of the fact that a signifiant proportion of their pupils are demographically in 'rural poverty'. All the after school clubs are free and they have never once charged parents to attend a nativity or demanded cash for a craft activity.

One solution to the underfunding could be to charge for newly arrived migrant children rather than just dishing out free education - they charge in other EU countries until you eventually become a citizen. I think that’s a practical idea

It’s not just “covering the cost” it’s deliberately using parents to fund their management decisions.

A decision that will benefit every single pupil, every single day. Smaller class sizes have a huge impact on learning, attainment, engagement, inclusion, relationships, wellbeing... I could go on! It's not like they've decided to deck out the staff room with a Starbucks concession fgs - they are trying to make good decisions which directly benefit your child's education!

I'm a teacher. This thread makes me despair. I don't think some of you realise just how skint schools are. Or how long and hard we have to think about what little spending we can afford. So yeah, maybe some schools don't charge for concerts but they will be having to raise funds elsewhere or make further cuts.

A pp questioned why they need £300 for art supplies for one class. Seriously?! £300 for an entire primary class? Art twice a week for 39 school weeks = 78 lessons per year. Say 30 pupils in a class, that equals 12 PENCE per child per lesson! That's before displays, special projects, Christmas, Easter etc. Which is why so many teachers (the primaries are 100% the worst off for this) end up resorting to buying their own supplies - and they do it so your child doesn't miss out.

Schools have 2 options right now: fundraise or make cuts. Usually it's both sadly. You are complaining about the former but trust me you would complain harder about the latter. You do not want your child in a maximum capacity class, with a stressed out teacher with no time for each child, no resources, no trips, no enrichment and simply learning stuff off the board day in day out.

After a long day of trying my absolute best for your child (and I actually did spend some my own money today - glue sticks as our stationary budget is blown!) its always nice to read threads like this and know just how much the parents are on our side Try directing your irritation where it belongs - and it's not the school!

Of course you shouldn’t have to pay but the school wouldn’t be asking you to contribute if they weren’t absolutely stretched to breaking point. The school will know that a sizeable number of parents can’t or won’t pay, so the amount demanded will have been pitched at a level that they hope will help subsidise those kids who go unpaid. It’s a similar story in our wonderful state school. Yes it’s annoying as parents to be bombarded with requests for sometimes petty and sometimes exorbitant amounts, but we understand why.

Use your vote! It’s not the school’s fault.

My husband is a caretaker of an academy primary school in Surrey.
This time last year they asked the parents to send their children in with pencils and pens. The school, due to lack of funding has no money.
The EO though drives a Maserati!

Gosh that is a lot. My DC's school have a low FSM rate. Charge £1 for Christmas play. Christmas fair is free entry but they raise several thousand. I'd be interested to know how much is raised at your school? We have approximately 1 non uniform day per term and in winter and summer these are contributions for the school fair rather than donations. The craft costs are obscene. I've paid less for a whole day trip out.

We once got asked to pay a tenner toward baking supplies in Reception.

I paid up as you do, expecting a nice supply of wonky baked goods to come home. Nope, just a muffin and a bit of pizza.

When then they asked for it the next term and just said I hadn't spent that much on baking supplies for myself!

@Genevieva the transport isn't an "additional" cost. It's the cost of providing a legally mandated activity. Just as maths classes will require a teacher, chairs, tables, other resources. Reading classes require teachers, books, chairs, etc. Swimming requires teachers, a pool and a way to get there (which, the OP has pointed out, could in her school's case be on foot). And while I know the school is supposed to allow those who won't pay to attend and I don't object to schools requesting voluntary donations schools often phrase it as though it is mandatory to pay and that's verging on fraudulent. The OP has also said her school has excluded children from some activities for nonpayment and the app they have been told to use to give permission to attend activities does not have an option to pay nothing or a different amount. This is, effectively, mandating payment from parents.

For the school play - there may well be costs associated (performing rights fees, a hall big enough for the audience, etc.) and, in any case, plenty of parents have to consider whether they can attend a school performance or not even without a fee. An entry fee is nothing compared to the cost of missing work, for example, and that's a choice that plenty of parents make when they have to decide whether to attend. Many children perform in school plays, nativities and concerts without their parents in the audience. It's not necessary to have them there for the teaching of drama. I'm not denying that children might enjoy it (though plenty do not) and that parents might feel pressure to attend, but it isn't part of the school's legal responsibility - unlike the provision of swimming lessons. I'm not advocating for sky high ticket prices for school performances, just pointing out that schools have a legal duty and they need to deliver that. When they have to make hard choices about fundraising it is somewhat shocking that some people think the school should push their legal responsibility to provide education below parents' desire to see their children perform.

Today the free education of my class has cost me: £40 for the online subscription I pay for, in order to access texts because the school doesn’t have enough books for 1 each; £25 books used in my English lesson (I bought them, school won’t); my lunchtime (short staffed, I did lunch duty so that the children were supervised). I teach 30 children, I don’t have full time support- that is long gone.

All the donations are keeping the school afloat. We run fundraising events every other week- we are that desperate.

Our 'voluntary contribution' is €350 or €550 per year if you are unlucky enough to have 2 daughters in the school! This is a non fee paying public secondary school in Dublin. And then there's the Sponsored walk, Xmas fair, the musical and bake sales! And the €140 for stationary, locker rental etc. The problem being that other public schools get more funding from the Department of Education and us parents have to make up the shortfall!

Whilst funding is a problem schools now practically parent some kids and that take a massive chunk out of what should be spent educating kids .

@Indella
Why is there only 12/17 pupils in reception and year 1? Is it just me but I've never heard of schools having this less children in the year. Is it ina rural area?

Regarding your post when my DC started reception (now in year 3) I couldn't believe the amount of money they would ask for, £X for this and that, it adds up. I remember on genes day (in year reception) dc was supposed to take a pound in, I was holding on to it for him til we get in the playground, we both forgot and when I went to pick him up from school, he told me his teacher asked him where his pound was

Indella I totally agree with your post re the number of classes, have you thought about joining the board of governors or speaking to the parent governor about your concerns? We had a similar issue with cost of transportation to swimming at my DC's primary which was all the more ridiculous when it transpired that the majority of the class went to private swimming lessons and were all way ahead of the 25 metres target. I suggested to the HT that they only took those children who couldn't swim but it didn't go down well.

Posters shouldn't say that education is free - it's only free at the point of delivery. The public are paying a significant amount of tax for this service. Topping up the school is an additional tax and if parents keep doing it, the state will continue to cut budgets.
School isn't free childcare either!

For those who say not to vote Tory, it's not that simple - under Labour schools weren't swimming in money either. Any govt who can get away with offloading additional costs onto parents will do so.

I think schools waste too much curriculum time on rehearsals for the Christmas play as it is. If they are paying £££ for the rights, why don't they go back to doing the basic nativity, which is both free and doesn't take months to rehearse?

Growing up, we received so much for 'free' at school - swimming included. So, in that sense, it's reasonable that you think this is unreasonable. However, schools are so underfunded, you have those wanting to deliver all that we had but without government funding so their only choice is to charge us parents to provide a holistic education. Unfortunately, parents are also stretched so I appreciate the annoyance completely but, don't be upset with the school (unless they are generally a shit school) be upset with the system.

To add, on another level it is scary to think that now, in the state school system, the quality of your childs education will be impacted by how much the parents can generally 'afford to donate' and how many parents are able to 'volunteer' their time and skills :( My ds's school is fantastic but the parents are typically, comfortably middle class so generally we are fine and able to pay up. But, I came from a poor family and it was only due to having had access to a good free education that I am no longer considered poor. I am happy to pay that forward but it is a real shame.

The only reason they’re asking is because the school are underfunded by this government. When my daughter was us school under the others I was on the PTA and we fund raised for the nice extras like play equipment, now they’re fundraising for books!

I want to say as I've said before, I pay much more tax and NI under a conservative government, I'm always worse off when they are in power, so where is the money going?