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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to feel quite so annoyed about this?

61 replies

VestaTilley · 08/12/2019 22:37

I've spotted on Instagram (always a bad start, but bear with me, this gets better) that lots of people are talking about "the twelve days of Christmas"- and assuming that that period starts on 1st December.

Are you kidding?? Is religious literacy and historical and cultural understanding in our country now so low that a high number of people don't know that the twelve days of Christmas starts ON CHRISTMAS DAY! (Ok, yes, I know about 5th/6th Jan disputed thing).

The twelve days, as I understand it, represent the progress of the Magi to visit Jesus, leading to Ephiphany. I know culturally now Christmas for most people (sadly) seems to end the day after Boxing Day, but FFS.

So we now have trees up at the he's of November, down on Boxing Day, and a huge number of people thinking it's just a commercial tat fest.

Yes, I know most people are not Christian, and many people just have Christmas as their mid winter festival, but for crying out loud!

And please don't start with "the Christians just nicked the date from the pagans anyway" yada yada. Yes, I know, but is it too much to ask that our general population is actually educated to a basic level about what our only real national, collective holiday is and when it takes place?

Rant over. If I had a shed I'd stomp off to it. Feel free to tell me to get a grip.

OP posts:
Original poster
VestaTilley · 08/12/2019 23:23

@khione good point about the countdown calendars!

OP posts:
Original poster
VestaTilley · 08/12/2019 23:24

@Ellisandra what fresh horror is this about 12 door calendars?!

Stop the world, I want to get off.

Really good point about understanding of christian imagery and allegory in art! There's loads I'm sure I miss because I'm not as educated as I wish I was!

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Ellisandra · 08/12/2019 23:29

I was trying to think of an example... I thought of the Lamb of God. That’s just a common phrase to me, alongside the concept of sacrifice. I grew up going to church and Sunday school.

I’m an atheist, and I’m sure my 11yo wouldn’t have a clue what I meant by ‘Lamb of God’. She’d guess “a lamb belonging to god?” And that’s it.

She’s not stupid, she doesn’t not care about tradition. It’s just not her home or school life.

Pipandmum · 08/12/2019 23:31

While more people seem to be putting trees up earlier, I don't know anyone who takes it down on Boxing Day. I do see the odd tree out on the pavement. We were in our holiday flat last year and had to take it down earlier than normal but that's because we were leaving (back home where we also had a tree up).
I'm Catholic so know about the 12 days and all my friends (none religious) know it too.

Original poster
VestaTilley · 08/12/2019 23:35

@ellisandra that calendar is so bloody depressing!!

Interesting point re Lamb of God, too. I think religious literacy is drastically declining; I don't think it's a good thing as it'll do nothing for religious tolerance or understanding of our own culture, whether one is religious or not. Sad

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Ellisandra · 08/12/2019 23:39

I actually don’t care when people put their tree up and down. I do like traditions - and I love knowing the origins. But I don’t see why people’s lives (in tree date choices!) should be bound by a religion they don’t even follow. There are plenty of traditions of the Christian church that I’m happy to leave behind.

I remember a passage in a (fiction) book about a woman’s wedding day having this special moment, the only time in her life when she can approach the altar. The wonderfully irreverent character says something along the lines of “aye - except for the days she’s on the cleaning rota”.

Just because it’s traditional, doesn’t mean it must be followed.

Ellisandra · 08/12/2019 23:41

Incidentally, I’m in my 50s and my Sunday School nativities had the Magi (just known as kings) turning up on the same day as the shepherds.

Starksforthewin · 08/12/2019 23:50

People are almost proud of their ignorance nowadays. Basic general knowledge seems to have disappeared from both the curriculum and the national consciousness.

Look at TV quiz shows. These people have CHOSEN to participate yet with few exceptions their knowledge is woeful.
Looking something up on the internet is no substitute for the pursuit of knowledge and education.

soupforbrains · 08/12/2019 23:50

@VestaTilley YANBU This gets on my nerves EVERY year. I had a rant just the other day to my friend.

The last 5 years or so a HUGE number of companies have done either 12 days of special offers/sales or sort of mini advent calendars with twelve doors published as the 12 days of Christmas but running from 14th-25th December. It's JUST WRONG.

6th January is also known as TWELFTH NIGHT fgs. how do people really not know at all that it's the days from Christmas day to the Epiphany? it drives me nuts.

Although I did see 1 company this year, I think it was Paperchase who are advertising a 12 Days of Christmas sort of Advnet calendar thing but actually state the correct timing for it. Something along the lines of "The fun doesn't have to end on Christmas day, with our [product name] you can keep the fun going for the 12 days of Christmas" so at least there is one company which seems to have a grip on things.

soupforbrains · 08/12/2019 23:59

@Khione actually that's not correct Advent starts the 4th Sunday before christmas not the 3rd, there are 4 sundays in advent and then christmas day.

ThinkIamflyingundertheradar · 09/12/2019 00:02

I’m a Christian inasmuch as I attend church regularly and am part of a faith based community I participate in many church based activities (cleaning for a homeless shelter, raising funds for prisoners families, advocating for refugees, etc) as well as the more fun things like carol concerts and parties. I totally get your point about people not understanding when the 12 days of Christmas start but it doesn’t bother me because It seems more of a cultural thing not a religious thing. I’m much more concerned about people thinking that Christmas is about swapping, unwanted, unnecessary pieces of plastic tat or gift packs of toiletries than I am about the names they assign to different days of the month.

BoomBoomsCousin · 09/12/2019 00:04

Is it too much to ask that our general population is actually educated to a basic level about what our only real national, collective holiday is and when it takes place?

In what way are the 12 days of Christmas our only real national collective holiday? I wasn't aware they had any national significance or any support as a holiday from any non-Christian institution.

Creepster · 09/12/2019 00:13

They are probably just mixed up between Advent and a memory improvement song.
Speaks ill of how effective the song is, eh?

Naughty1205 · 09/12/2019 00:29

Yanbu OP. The human race is really getting thicker. Pure ignorance.

Original poster
VestaTilley · 09/12/2019 06:27

Agree with everyone who says people seem proud of their ignorance. It's so bloody depressing. One of the many ways that I think the internet is making us collectively poorer as a society, not better off.

To the poster who said about it not being part of a cultural holiday - it is. Christmas isn't one day - it's twelve! If people are going to celebrate it I do wish they could get that bit right.

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Bluntness100 · 09/12/2019 06:40

If I had to chose between being the sort of person who did not know the twelve days of Christmas for whatever reason, or the type of person who calls people stupid and insults others, I'd pick the former every time.

BoomBoomsCousin · 09/12/2019 06:50

"Christmas isn't one day - it's twelve! If people are going to celebrate it I do wish they could get that bit right."

Our national holiday isn't 12 days, it's 2. You were complaining that people didn't know about what our only real national, collective holiday is and when it takes place? but that isn't the national holiday at all.

Christianity is no longer relevant to most people in the UK - and it's died out largely because too many of its supposed adherents were too stuck for too long on pointless tradition rather than the transforming love of Christ.

Coffeekisses · 09/12/2019 06:55

I think the major factor is the return to work which for most of us is well before 6 Jan... so Christmas may start in the Christian calendar on 25th but it ends in the secular one before the 12 days are up.
“Yada yada” is pretty offensive btw.
I’m sure there are plenty of pagan allusions and dates of significance that you don’t understand OP.

geekone · 09/12/2019 07:26

Thank goodness for this thread! Yes it does my head in!

Our tree comes down on the 12th night, no big party Grin. I think if someone made the Christmas Carol film properly, more people would know because the spirit of Christmas present dies at midnight on the 12th night.

ScreamingValenta · 09/12/2019 07:48

I haven't come across this, but it doesn't surprise me because I think there's been a general cultural shift towards Christmas being all about the build up, and over by Boxing Day or at the latest, New Year.

However, I think it's unfair to blame ignorance or excessive commercialism on the part of individuals.

I imagine this to be partly due to working practices - more households than ever have all adult members working, and employers generally don't want Christmas lingering on in the workplace and causing a distraction, so the feeling from December 27th onwards is very much 'Christmas over, take the decorations down, it's business as usual'.

The 12 days of Christmas is one of those things I seem 'always' to have known, though I was brought up by atheist parents. I think for the vast majority of secular or only nominally Christian people, it simply isn't practical or relevant to extend the festive period to Jan 5th or 6th. Life has to go on and much as it might be nice to wallow in the festive fug for those extra days, it's not possible when you are firmly pulled out of it by your day-to-day responsibilities.

Original poster
VestaTilley · 09/12/2019 20:27

@ScreamingValenta I think you're absolutely right. Shortened holidays in the Victorian period are what did for Twelfth Night as a big celebration.

I'm being curmudgeonly I know, but it annoys me how so much cultural and religious understanding and literacy has been lost.

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SquareSausages · 09/12/2019 22:39

If I had to chose between being the sort of person who did not know the twelve days of Christmas for whatever reason, or the type of person who calls people stupid and insults others, I'd pick the former every time.

People can celebrate Christmas how they want. I don't see what's wrong with people putting their tree up when they want to.

I don't see why non-christians need to know what the lamb of god is either.

soupforbrains · 11/12/2019 22:38

To add to my previous comments on this.

I don't really care if people do or don't 'observe'/celebrate the twelve days of Christmas. Nor do I especially care if they know what it is.

What I DO strongly object to is the misuse of the 12 days of Christmas. Using it to refer to the incorrect period of time and/or Appropriating a tradition which has a genuine meaning and background for whatever commercial advertising you like is absolute bollocks.

Do or do not celebrate the twelve days, I don't care. People don't know about the 12 days? People have forgotten twelfth night? Fine. It's a Christian thing and that's not everyone's taste. But don't use it wrongly.