AIBU to give an ultimatum to declutter or to move out.

[carerererer]

An ultimatum is a strong word - something I'd never have the guts to do but i'm finding the clutter extremely hard. I've name changed as I don't want this to be outting to other family members.

My elderly family member is a hoarder/has a lot of clutter.

They've asked myself and my partner to move in to 'help' around the house, look after them (with additional support) and to save on caring costs.

This family member has always had clutter; for example as a child I'd remember they'd only ever be one guest room as the other would be filled with rubbish then occasionally the other room would be emptied (loft/garage/over other rooms) then slowly filled up again.

It's a nightmare to keep clean, it's a tripping hazard and always looks messy. There's also little room for us for our stuff and it's a fairly big four bedroom house. It's really affecting my mental health - I didn't think it would affect me as much as it is. The fact that things are just stacked and shoved everywhere - one thing out of place and it's a huge mess.

Another thing that i'm dreading is that as the executor of the will (and little money), it's going to be a full time job clearing it all out; I don't want to just get a house clearance as there's probably sentimental things hiding away somewhere.

Are they even well enough to declutter if they need live in care?

YANBU. The things is, decluttering is rarely permanent. Even if it gets decluttered, new clutter will appear. I speak from experience with a relative who has always lived in clutter. If it’s affecting your mental health, living there just isn’t going to work for you. Put your own health first.

Just move out.

They won't change. When the inevitable happens, don't bother with house clearance, just book skips and chuck everything in it - if something sentimental turns up in the process, put it aside, but don't give anything more than the merest thought, as if it were truly of sentimental value, you'll spot it.

Don’t move in. They have a MH condition and the fact they are now elderly nothing will change.

Seriously, you have to prioritise your own MH.

Call ss to have the relative assessed for care if they need it.

You’ve already moved in? Before it was cleared? I doubt the person will change. You’re on a loser, sorry.

Whoops I didn’t realise that I enabled voting.

There’s just so much stuff. I’m not kidding that it would take weeks just lobbing everything in skips. A task I don’t want to particularly do once they pass - right now I feel like I’ve got more ‘time’.

There’s literally boxes upon boxes stacked everywhere. That’s their coping mechanism ‘get a box as this stuff is just sitting around’ for then that box of random things to be slid under the table or what not - probably not to be touched in years. I’m almost tempted to ask that we need to get a professional organiser so the house is liveable/tidy/clean.

I do think the family member will get on board decluttering but it’s a extremely slow process and to be honest I don’t know how to do it.

Have they already moved in with you?

I think it's a much easier job to say you will only agree to them moving in with you if they declutter and their stuff stays in their room, than it is if they have already moved them and their stuff in.

Having said that, if they've always been like this then I doubt very much it is going to change or even if they fully realise what the issue is (or ever will). I personally couldn't live like that.

Hoarding is a seriously complex and difficult-to-treat mental health problem. You can issue the ultimatum if you like, but it's 99% that they will choose to keep the clutter. (It's not so much that they love the clutter, as the idea of losing the clutter is terrifying to them)

Your life will be much easier if you move out, tbh. I don't doubt that the prospect of clearing the house in the event of your relative's death is overwhelming to you. However, it's probably equally or more overwhelming to them to tackle it now. I would expect to encounter resistance.

I do realise it's a dilemma for you. I would suggest talking with your relative about it - maybe focus on the safety aspect (clutter = major fire hazard, they have a lovely home and the clutter stops them enjoying it...) and try to encourage them to take a baby step. Ok, so decluttering the whole house is terrifying and will take ages and they can't face it. Maybe doing a single room is a huge, overwhelming task too. Could they maybe try doing a single box with you to help?

If they can't face doing a single box, or if doing a box with you is very traumatic for them, you'll have a clearer idea of where you stand.

my mum is a bit like this, she wanted to take 3 bedroom worth of furniture and hoarded stuff into a 1 bedroom bungalow - yes you read that correctly - dh and i cleared somuch stuff out before shemoved [due to ill health] and she bitched endlessy to my adult dcs that i'd thrown her stuff away , some was rubbish and a lot went to charity.
when she had to have medical equipment installed, hospital style bed, etc she moaned to dc again because we had toclear more furniture and stuff out. as it is she'sin and out of hospital to the point she should have her own bed and loyalty points ! op i feel your pain !

Decluttering takes far longer than you'd imagine. There's a thread on here, I'll see if I can link it of a lovely lady who is helping to declutter a friend's house. She's been at it a year and I think has cleared the bathroom, a small bedroom and part of the living room. Don't take on the task of decluttering!!

Thread is in Housekeeping title: Please will you kindly support and advise me, as I try to help a friend sort out his home?
Sorry, I don't know how to link properly

Would they even notice if you did some stealth decluttering?

You could pay someone to do the decluttering for you but there would obviously be a cost. Or you could apply to a TV company. SROaudiences.com are looking for families who are in need of a cleaning and decluttering expert. Their blurb says

"With family life busier than ever, people up and down the UK are running out of hours in the day to keep their homes clean and tidy. Calling on the skills of an expert who is known for being super organised, extra efficient and not afraid to get their hands dirty, together our cleaner and home owners will tackle the largest decluttering and cleaning jobs to restore your household and turn it into a gorgeous gaff!
From chaotic kitchens, to dirty dining rooms, to littered living rooms, no job is too large or too overwhelming for our expert to tackle."

The downside is that you'd obviously have to agree to be filmed.

Hoarders never change. It's a complex and deep mental health issue.

If it's enough to cause an issue from safety grounds, get the local fire officer in and see if that can help.

But you're already fighting a lost battle from the experience I had with a hoarding client (I used to work in care). Keep an area tidy for yourself, and stay in that part of the house.

It sounds like they are hoarding and this is due to many things but can be related to depression as well as ADHD and OCD.

Most people hoard as they think something they have saved will come in useful one day.

You need to speak to the family member and say something along the lines of "lets get a system going, we will clear 10 items a day from the house. If you haven't used something for 12 months it will go in one pile, if you have looked at or used something in the last 12 months it can go in a second pile, anything dirty, old or broken can go in a third pile". Then when you have pile 1 and 3 tell your family member they have to throw away five items. This way the task is smaller and you gradually remove items that they don't need or use without it being too overwhelming.

the first thing I'll say is "don't move in"!

the second thing....my late father wasn't exactly a hoarder but he didn't throw stuff away. He didn't buy a lot, but still had things like his payslips from the 1960s!

I wouldn't worry about sentimental things hidden away. My mum is going through stuff because she might find certain things sentimental, but that's her choice. If you later find yourself clearing stuff out, just clear it out. trust me, hours of looking through crap will not make you feel sentimental about anything you find!!